Moving Beyond Making Your Life Look Great to Make Sure It Feels Great with Esther Boykin
— EPISODE 64 —
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Adia Gooden: (00:00:00) This episode is sponsored by Crys & Tiana taking the guesswork out of launching your podcast.
Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life, and how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I have a really great guest on today. Esther Boykin is a licensed marriage and family therapist, and we just have a really interesting conversation, a dynamic conversation about how we can tend to build up the outside of our lives while neglecting the inside of our lives, how we can avoid intimacy with even the people who are closest with us, how we can move through the messy middle of life with compassion. It's a really dynamic and interesting conversation, and I know that you're going to get so much out of it. So be sure to listen in, listen to the end, and we'd love to connect with you. So follow Esther on Instagram. It's linked in the show notes. She shares her ID at the end. Follow me at Dr. Adia Gooden and let us know. Send us a DM. Let us know what you think of the episode. Let's get into the show.
I am really excited to welcome Esther Boykin onto the podcast today. Esther is a psychotherapist who wants to live in a world where everyone believes that therapy is not a dirty word, whether in her role as CEO of Group Therapy Associates, a coach, consultant, author, or media expert, she works daily to make mental health accessible, innovative, and culturally relevant for all people. In 2004, with a master of science from Virginia Tech and a vision of making mental health widely accessible for all, Esther Boykin began her career as a marriage and family therapist. Through the division of her company called Therapy is Not a Dirty Word. Esther brings therapy ideas and therapists outside of the office and into modern culture through media events and retreats that focus on her relentless mission to increase access and reduce stigma. Esther is also the author of two books and a sought after relationship and mental health expert. She has worked with Verizon, Deluxe Media, Elevate, and many other leading corporations.
Recently, she was named a top 21 relationship expert by Cosmopolitan Magazine. Esther appeared on NBC's Today Show, Bravo's Real Housewives of Potomac, HuffPost, Good Morning Washington, The Wall Street Journal, Coveteur, and a myriad of other media outlets. I am thoroughly impressed and very grateful that you've chosen to spend this time being on the podcast. So welcome, Esther.
Esther Boykin: Thank you so much for having me. It's so fun.
Adia Gooden: Awesome. Well, I'd love to start a conversation by having you tell me about your own self-worth journey?
Esther Boykin: Oh, that's such a big question. I always sort of struggle where to start, but I think that for me, one of the more recent kind of turning points really was probably about five or six years ago, just kind of really, it was the end of my marriage coming to terms with kind of ending a chapter of my life and recognizing that part of what went wrong was my own struggle to make space for myself to pay attention to my needs, to do what I help, you know, dozens, hundreds of people do over the course of my career, which is find that balance between how we take care of others and take care of ourselves. And so for me, that was a pivotal moment of recognizing like despite what I knew there was work for me to do around prioritizing my own needs and wants and growth.
Adia Gooden: I think that's something so many of the listeners are going to resonate with, right? Sort of doing like, sort of building a life, right? And you sort of talk about this in your TEDx talk. You all should check out Esther's TEDx talk. We’ll shout it out at the end and maybe link in the show notes, you all can watch it. But, you know, you talk about being someone who sort of had it all, like you know, achieving highly, getting advanced degrees, getting married, right? Like sort of building the life that everybody says, that society says is going to make us happy, right? Like this is the way, this is what you do to make yourself worthy. This is what you do to make yourself happy (00:05:00). And I think, you know, so many of us do that in various ways, in various different ways, and then realize like, oh, that's not working. And it seems like for you, one of the sort of signals that it wasn't working was the divorce. And so I wonder kind of what that experience was like for you and how you sort of navigated through that transition and whether that helped you to connect more deeply to your self-worth or kind of what that looked like?
Esther Boykin: You know, one of the really interesting things for me in that time period was there were other reasons why my marriage ended and that that wasn't working, that were very much about, you know, sort of the two of us and very different sort of values and visions of like what our life was the trajectory both wanted lives to be. Where I really got this crystal clear picture was in fact after we made the decision and began to tell the people in our lives that we were separating and realizing how many people reflected back. I mean, you know, I grew up in the 80s and so sort of the go to like kind of picturesque black family was like the Cosby Show and the number of friends and colleagues and people in my life who were like, no, you guys are like the Cosbys, right? Like, you had this. And really having to then sit with myself and go like, wait, these are people who are close to me, right? Like these are not people who just kind of see me from a distance and have a story about my life.
These are people who know me intimately and as it turns out, maybe didn't know me so intimately, right? Like they had this image that did not match the experience I had been having for many, many, many years. And so that for me, really kind of brought me to doing a different kind of work. You know, relationships fall apart all the time. But that was the sort of moment that crystallized for me, like beyond whatever happened between us, this was really a story or a moment for me to recognize like there is a disconnect between the ways in which I allow people to see me and the experiences I'm having. And I think when we think about self-worth, that is, that's pivotal, right? Like part of valuing ourselves is saying, I deserve to actually be seen for my true self. I deserve to have the kind of support and love and encouragement and challenging that comes when we allow people to sort of see us at our most vulnerable and allow people to have truly intimate connection to us.
Adia Gooden: I think that's really powerful. Because a lot of us are used to presenting a really impressive outside, right? We look good, right? All the hair's done, the nails done, the clothes are on point, right? Maybe you get the car, you got the job you got, right? Like looking good. Everything's good on the outside. And then internally we may really be struggling and it may be hard to communicate that we may not even know how to communicate. I'm struggling or I'm, or yeah, things are good on the outside and it's not awful on the inside, but it's not right, like there's something missing or there's something off, or I don't feel that joy and that happiness that I thought I would feel when I did all the things I was supposed to do to get to this place. And so I think that's really this the point of reflection that you had of like, oh, there's some disconnect.
And I need to sort of allow myself to have deeper intimacy with my friends to maybe even connect with myself more deeply around what it is really that I want and need. And how do I show up in that? And how I do I let other people know that I think that's really important. And I think it's something that so many of us don't do, you know, I know that for me it's, you know, it's hard to be vulnerable, right? Like even as a therapist, even as somebody who coaches people, right? Like it's hard to sit and be like I'm struggling, or this doesn't feel good or, you know, what do you think? Or just let people see you the most raw, vulnerable parts of you. And I think when we do that, as you're alluding to, that's when we sort of are affirmed for our worthiness because people are seeing us not the shiny outside of us, but the messy middle the inside and saying, I love you. I care for you. I'm here for you. And that's really what deeply affirms our worth.
Esther Boykin: Absolutely. And, you know, and it's something that I’d say often in my work and said before, you know, before I even had my own sort of reckoning with it personally, is oftentimes part of what's missing in our struggle to feel loved and to connect with our worthiness is that we're not allowing people to see all of us. And as long as, you know, consciously or unconsciously that there's a piece of you that these people who say they love you and admire you and value you, that there's this piece that they don't know about (00:10:00), then it's sort of like, well, you, you only 90% love me. You don't even know that you don't love me 100%. Because there's pieces of me that are hiding and it's not that everybody has to know every, you know, sort of deep dark thought you have.
But as you said, it's allowing people to see like sort of the messiness and the complexities and the uncertainty. I think for a lot of us, as I think particularly as women who are ambitious and high achieving and doing all of these things and, you know, trying to be a good wife and a good mom and all of that, we spend so much time doing things that somewhere in the mix I don't even think it's about hiding. It's just we stop checking in. We don't slow down enough to be like, wait, how do I really feel, right? And like the more you accomplish, the more you feel like people expect you to know to be clear to make sure. And so then it becomes even harder to say, wait, hold on. Like now I'm pausing, I'm checking in. I'm not a 100% sure about how I feel or what's next. And I don't even know how to express that anymore. Because now over time, we begin to feel as though people expect us to be certain to know. And so then we don't even attempt to articulate some of the uncertainty or the questioning that is a very natural part of like our growth as human beings. Like we're always going through new phases of questioning who we are, what we want, what we need, what's next in our lives?
Adia Gooden: Yeah. I mean, there's so much that you're saying here that I want to sort of draw out. One is you sort of talked about this, like when you hold back that part, that like 10% or that piece, there's, you know, like what came to mind is sort of like relational imposter syndrome, which is like, if you really knew me, you wouldn't love me. And so because I believe that, because I don't believe that if you knew all of me that you would love me, I feel sort of like an imposter, I feel like I'm sort of faking it, you know what I mean? Like I'll let you see the good parts. I'll let you see the nice parts that maybe I'll put in a touch of struggle here and there, so you know, I'm real, right? Just a little curated struggle. But like if you really knew, I think you'd be gone. And so it's terrifying, right? And so then we don't allow people to love us or see us fully, right? They do not get the option.
And I think that's part of the reason why when I'm working with people on self-worth stuff, it's I'm helping them, okay, how do you see yourself? How do you show up for yourself? How do you care for yourself? Because, and then how do you allow other people to care for you? Because doing, like that's how we can start, because it is so common. People are like, yeah, but this stuff in my closet locked. You're never getting in there. And then, you know, I can't be my full self. I can't let my guard down. All of that sort of creates, you know, distance in the relationship. And I also love what you're saying about the certainty, and I think particularly for black women, at least in my experience is, you know, we are socialize around strength and often feel like we need to embody this role in our families, in our workplaces of confidence. We know what to do, right? Like we're often the savers, the fixers, right? The ones who have it together.
And there's often very little room in there for, as you're saying, uncertainty for, I don't know, for, I'm still trying to figure it out. And it can feel scary to allow yourself into that space. And we often need other people to help us and hold that space for us, right? That's one of the powers of therapy, right? Is that if we are always in the ones like the strong friend, or you're always in the role of knowing what to do and getting it done and having it together and handling it, then you probably have a lot of people around you who expect you to always be in that role and may struggle to offer you space for you not to know. And so therapy can be so powerful and coaching can be so powerful because it gives you the space to not know, and the coach or the therapist isn't going to freak out on you, right? They're not going to be like, well, well how do you not know? You're supposed to know? They're going to be like, okay, this is normal, as you said, as they're like, this is a normal part of the human experience to not know when this is healthy to let yourself live in this space for a while.
Esther Boykin: Yeah. And, you know, so I do a lot of work with, a lot of my clients are black women in very sort of high powered positions, whatever that looks like in whatever industry. And so what I finding over the last several years is like, not only is there like the circle of people in your life who expect you to know, right? Because they've become, we've all sort of adopted our roles. Their role is to like not know and to need you (00:15:00) and role is to fix and save, and you know, joint care take. But then you get to a certain place sometimes like career wise, and then your circle of friends are a bunch of women who are having the same experience as you. And so while they're not looking for you to fix their lives and fix, you know, and kind of take care of them because they are also taking care of a bunch of people, all of you are sort of like, wait, but we're all fixers.
And so you get into this other dynamic of like, well, I can't tell them, not because they're going to freak out, but because then they're going to try to fix, like they feel like I'm now one more person that they have to take care of that they're supposed to solve my problems. And so I really love, you know, talking about that idea of what does it look like to hold space? And I agree. I mean, therapy I think is one of the most, I mean, I think it's one of the most important things we offer is, is the experience we need to have practice just having the experience of what does it feel like, what does it look like when another person holds space for you to be unsure to be, to be messy, to fall apart to, you know, whatever it is, right? To just exhale, to like literally just breathe. So that eventually you begin to model that in your life. So that we go back into like our communities and our circle of friends and family and begin to model as instead of being the fixer, instead of having all the answers, being learning what it feels like to say, wow, that sounds really hard.
And I'm guessing that with some time you'll be able to figure out what's the best solution for this for you. But I'm here to listen, right? And like as therapists, we know how to do that. That's what we do, that's what we do at work. But learning how to then do that in your own life. And I think its work as a therapist or as a coach, but then also teaching our clients how to begin to do that in their lives, right? Like you don't need to be a therapist to do that. You can start. And as you start to model it, it's amazing how other people in your life begin to go, oh, do you have capacity for me to talk to you about my problems? Like these are things that I think sometimes we like you hear a therapist say, or you see somebody on social media talking about it, you're like, I don’t know anyone in my life who would do that, people in your life can learn how to do that. They just, they don't have the experience and neither do you. And so I really think that's been one of the things that even in my own personal work has been around practicing that, you know, really cultivating.
And some of it was cultivating some new friendships with some new people that, you know, I sort of met in more healing spaces and that kind of stuff. But also recognizing that like, friends I've had my whole life, they were just waiting for me to give them the opportunity to do that. It's not that they didn't know how. It's not that they didn't want to. It was like, oh, but this is how you show up. You show up like you've got it together, but now that you're letting me know, like you don't always have it together. I can do this for you. I want do this for you. I've been waiting for that moment. And I think that that's an experience that a lot of us could have if we take that little bit of leap of faith with some of the people in our lives.
Adia Gooden: I love that you name it as a leap of faith because it really is, right? Like giving people the opportunity to show up for you. And that's a vulnerable place, right? It's vulnerable to say, hey, I need your help and then wait, right? Because then you're waiting and they may show up and they may not show up, and you may have had people in the past who didn't show up. Maybe the little one in you is like, we do not ask anybody to do anything for us because our heart was broken again and again by these adults in our life who didn't do what they were supposed to do for us. And so that's it. We do it for ourselves. Like maybe the little one in you is saying that, and so it's like, okay, how can the adult, the grownup in you say, we're going to to try again. We're going to allow people to show up for us.
And I think a dynamic that can be created is sort of resentment and a little bit of like victimhood. Nobody ever talk asking, nobody ever, you know, and it's like, and it's like, okay, that may be true. And if every time somebody asks you, well, how are you? You say, I'm good and this is happening and this is happening, I'm great, I'm great, I'm great, right? Then they are, you know, they don't know that inside you may be really struggling. And so it's like, yeah, sometimes, you know, and that you have the relational training as a marriage and family therapist. It's like, well, you know, the other people have a role and then we also have a role in this. We are also contributing to this dynamic. And if we create space for somebody else to step up and step in and help us, they are more likely to do that, instead of just assuming they can't do it, they won't do it. And so we're not going to let them try.
Esther Boykin: And I think that that really gets into some place that I see sometimes people get really stuck is that (00:20:00) insight is not enough, right? Like sometimes we're able to, whether it's through therapy or coaching or you've read some books or whatever it is, and suddenly you're kind of like, oh, I can't, I don't ask for help because of these experiences in my childhood in a previous relation, you know, wherever it came from. And then they stop. It's like, no, no, no. The point of insight is so that we can gently challenge ourselves to do something different, right? It's so that we don't get into a pattern of self-criticism like, oh, I don't trust, or I have trust issues, or I don't how be intimate with, you know, other people or whatever, and go, oh no, no, this totally makes sense. It makes sense that the little girl in me learned to do certain things because this was the dynamic, but I'm a grown up now, which, and that pattern doesn't serve me. It's not getting me what I need.
And now it's time to intentionally choose to do something different. And so I try really hard in my work and just in talking with people around, like how do we sort of combine these things, right? Like we need to think about it. We have to sort of honor the emotional experience that comes up, really practice our self-compassion, but we have to also take action. We have to do something different if we want to have something different in our lives. And I think that sometimes that's where, you know, sometimes I see people and they're sort of stuck in this, like I'm working on myself work. I'm working on loving myself more. Okay, well what does that look like? What are we doing though every day, right? Like, well, as soon as I love myself more, then I'll ask for help. Then, you know, then I'll have a different dating experience or a different relationship. It's like, no, no, no, these things are all intertwined. We're doing it together, right? Like part of developing that sense of love and compassion of worthiness happened in real time. It requires us to be engaged in relationships.
And for me, that's always, I mean, that's what through me to marriage and family, you know, many, many moons ago when I was in grad school. But it's what I love most about having a relational focus to my work is. Relationships are literally like the most important thing as human being, right? Like it motivates pretty much all of our behavior to some degree or another. And it is I think a sort of learning environment. You know, a lot of times I'll tell people like, you know, you learn to have different relationships by, you know, dating different people, or not even necessarily dating other people, but just doing something different in the relationship you have. You have different friendships by showing up differently in friendship. You have to practice the skill if you wanted to see it grow and flourish like anything else that we do in our lives.
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I really appreciate that you highlight kind of the importance of actually doing the work, right? And not like sitting on the sidelines and being like, oh, that looks so good. That's really interesting. And I like, you know, sort of, because we're in a world of like consumption, right? Like consuming a lot of information on Instagram or TikTok or wherever and like listening to a lot of podcasts, right? Like, you know, so that's great, right? Like it's a really good start. And part of the reason that, you know, we encourage therapy, coaching those sorts of things is because then there's some accountability (00:25:00) and some guidance hopefully around taking different actions. It's also what you said about like love, if I just believe, you know, I'm worthy or I just love myself, then I'll start doing things different.
And I really go from, let's start doing these things and these things are going to communicate to you that you are worthy and they will then like continue to work, right? Like so you mentioned self-compassion. If you practice self-compassion, that's your communicating to yourself that you are worthy, even when you're having a hard time, even when you make a mistake. And that communication is going to make you feel more worthy and it's going to be easier to do the self-compassion. And we sort of like keep going there, but it's through the actions and the practices versus like maybe if I just like close my eyes really tight and say, I'm worthy, I'm worthy, I love myself, I love myself 50 times, like it'll work.
And I think that's why people get frustrated. Because they're like, I say the affirmations and it's like well, the affirmations are good, but they really don't do everything that's like a small piece of the whole puzzle and all of the, because you can affirm yourself, but the next second you're criticizing yourself, beating yourself up, neglecting your, you know, self-care, all this stuff, like you're not going to feel worthy or you're not going to feel loved. So I love that you say that. And then I also like the sort of, you're highlighting the learning that can happen in relationships because I think, you know, people say, like to say, oh, relationships take work, but then many people still hold a fantasy that relationships should be instantaneous, perfect, or they shouldn't, or you shouldn't be in them.
So that's kind of a thing. Like how do you, how do people understand? I think people also don't understand what is the work of relationships, right? Like people are, communication is key. Do you know what it means to communicate? Like to really, like acknowledge how you feel, communicate in that constructive way. Listen, right? Like there's all these things that people sort of gloss over. And then I also like it because too often we think of relationships as, you know, and I think especially for women, you're supposed to get married and if you didn't get married then that was a waste and it wasted your time, right? And, you know, yeah. And it's like, but there's so much learning and there's so much growth and there's so much richness and also so much love that can happen in relationships, romantic and otherwise that don't have to lead to marriage or last forever.
Esther Boykin: I think that is so key. And I so often watch people stay in relationships that are unhealthy, that no longer serve either a partner that are detrimental to the children. Because there's this idea of, well, we're just, even sometimes they're in therapy, right? Like, and it's like we're just going to at working at it, working at it. Because otherwise it's waste. Let's redefine why we're in this relationship. Are we in this relationship so that at 85 you can say you were married for 50 years, and I don’t know, have a party? Are you in this so that you can, and I really, lately in the last several years. A lot of times I will get clients to read Bell Hooks, All About Love.
And I'm always like, even if you're not into the whole thing, I'm like, I just want you to read at the very beginning where she talks about defining love. And so that I was like, we need a working definition, right? Because a lot of times it's like, well, I'm in the relationship so I want to find love. I want to be in love. We love each other. And I'm like, okay, but then what does that actually mean in a really tangible way? And I'm always a fan of her particular definition, which is really kind of a blend of some other Eric and some others. But it really is right, like this sort of commitment to the growth and development each other. Sometimes we grow and we develop and then we're done, right?
We've reached the conclusion of the growth and development that we were going to be able to help each other do. And that learn if you can get to that place and with a moderate amount of like pain and some honesty and some kindness, and that relationship that feels incredibly successful to me just as much as a couple who is together for the next 60 years doing the same thing with love, you know, with kindness, with affection, with mutual respect, with honesty, right? Like can we do those things with each other? And then that might mean the only way for us to continue to sort of show mutual respect or kindness means that we actually need to not spend time together anymore. And that's still an okay place, if you can reach that and try to preserve some level of that respect and kindness for one another and (00:30:00) whatever other qualities you've decided.
Like if I love somebody, these are the things that I want us to show and exhibit between us. And so I love that you said that. Because I think it's one of the ways that society gives us one message that can very easily undermine our sense of self-worth. Because staying in a relationship, romantic or otherwise, that no longer serves you that chips away at your values at your core self is one of the ways that I see women in particular betray themselves over and over and over again. And rebuilding yourself worth from that place takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of self-forgiveness on the other side of that.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's so helpful because I think people often don't know how to end relationships well because it's like, you either stay or it's so awful, right? Or you turn the other person into a monster in your head, or you cheat or, you know what I mean? Like, it's like people don't know how to just say, you know what? I think this is done. And so, or like, let's have a conversation about like what's, you know, we started out so excited and mourned the sort of loss of that and process it and decide do we want to keep going? Do we want to, like can we wrestle with those things in a way that honors the relationships we had that honors each of us, right?
But instead, I think because people don't know how to do that, they blow up the relationship, right? They either make somebody into a monster, they cheat, they do, right? Like and so then they're like, well, I have to divorce them because they're awful. And then the divorce is acrimonious and it lasts for three years. And, you know, it's like there actually is a way to amicably end a relationship, a marriage, and to say, I'm grateful for the time we had together. And we both realize that it's no longer serving us and it's no longer working. And if we keep going down this path, it's going to be harmful to both of us. So let's part ways with gratitude, with grace, all of that.
Esther Boykin: Yeah. It's just one of those, sometimes the analogy I use is like, if we think about it as sort of like, you know, one relationship ends and it's sort of, and then we want to be free to like write a new story, right? I always have this image of actually both my kids did this, I don’t know what their thing was when they were like, really, really small? But there was like a period of time I was like, I would a book and I'd be like, okay, do I want to read another story? And the only way to be able to read the other story is they would throw the book. Like the book couldn't be in the bed. Like you got to like throw it away. And now we can read a new one. It's like actually we could just close this. We could put it back on the shelf. We could put it over here and read the next one.
And I'm like, that's kind of this like attitude that we as adults bring into this. I love the, it is this sense of like, you got to blow it up, you got to like delete it, like your life is sort of like a, your life is like a really well curated collection of essays. Every sand doesn't always get tied up at the end of each one, but it does come to conclusion. It feels complete. And then we start something new, and I think particularly around romantic relationships, but the same happens in friendships, family, sometimes is a little bit different, it's more like a novel. You got to like figure out how to end one chapter and start another one. Like the story sort of continues.
But I think that's one of the skills that, that honestly allows us, again, to like bring a lot of self-compassion and love to ourselves of saying like I don't want to have to set fire to every good memory, to every lesson I learned, to every beautiful thing that came out of this time I had with this person in order to move on. I'd rather learn the skills and part of those are how do I grieve? How do I learn to be with my sadness, with my anger? Because I think that's also the piece that comes up when we turn other people into villains is like I don’t know how to hold my anger, my betrayal, my sadness, my disappointment, the grief of the things that happened here that disappointed me or betrayed me while simultaneously holding the joy, the love, you know, connection, the passion, the whatever else was good about that relationship.
And that's a very, it's a skill and it’s like a one skill. Like we can’t always hold both of them at the same time. Sometimes you got to be like (00:35:00), I can't even think about all the ways that this used to be good because it's so awful right now, but you leave a little space, right? Don't rewrite your past. This person was the worst. The past is still true. And it's okay to be like, I'm just not in a space to like revisit that right now. I got to close this chapter or this part of our story and then eventually in a few months, in a few years, whatever it is you will be able to sort of say like, oh, it wasn't all bad. It was never. I just think, you know, loving of another human being is never a waste of time.
Adia Gooden: I love that. Loving another human being is never a waste of time. I really love that. And I think it's so important because when you turn them into a monster and then you rewrite your story as it's always awful very quickly, we can go to, I was such an idiot, how could I have possibly, and people often do that if they're in a painful situation now it's, how could I have gotten myself into this? And you start beating yourself up, which is really the opposite of what you need. What's helpful? I'm glad you brought up self-compassion is self-compassion, right? Self-compassion helps us hold all of this complexity and notice it in our body and offer our-self encouragement and helps us, you know, to like make sense without beating ourselves up. Because then if you start beating yourself up and saying, how did I get here? Part of it is try, it's attempted an escape.
Because if I could fix it in my mind, if I had never met this person, if I had never gone on that date, if I had never right, then maybe I wouldn't be experiencing this pain now, right? And so we sort of like run away mentally and try to fix it, but meantime we're beating ourselves up. How could you be so stupid? Why didn't you see that sign? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You didn't notice that flag, right? And instead it's like, okay, there were so, there were some things that drew you in because it was so exciting and it was so new and you felt loved and you felt this, or that person felt like they saw you or got you in this way, and maybe you did overlook some of these things because you were desperate for love or whatever it is, right? That again therapy can help you learn to hold all this. And the through line is compassion, compassion, compassion. Because it really is this sort of magic tool that helps so much when you're dealing with the messy middle of life. Because I think the other thing we try to do with relationships is we make them black and white. It's all good or it's all bad. And the truth is, it's messy and we're in the messy middle most of the time. And so if we can stay there, if we can get more comfortable with the uncertainty, with the complexity, with the mess, then we're able to sort of show up to all the richness of life in a more helpful and sustainable way.
Esther Boykin: Yeah. I mean, I really couldn't agree more. And as you're sort of talking, I was really thinking, you know, part of what happens when we rewrite, we rewrite the older person as the villain, and then we become the victim. And when we sort of cast ourselves as the victim in our own story, we're not just a victim to that person in their, you know, bad choices and mean behavior. We become a victim to our own self critic. And the truth is, and it is hard to have compassion for that because what we really need to be is sort of, I always say like, you're the hero of your story, right?
And there's a very clear sort of story structure from my therapist who like narrative therapy, right? Like, being the hero means you're going to struggle, means you're going to have setbacks, means you're going to, you know, if we think about it almost like as archetypes, right? Or like mythology and like superhero movies, right? Like the villain really just represents some piece of you, your experience, your story, something that you're struggling with and navigating your way through and out of that is really about kind of stepping more fully into like who you're meant to be and your own life story. And so I think when we can, even when you're struggling with beating yourself up, and the self-criticism is kind of that reminder of like, well, hold on, I'm believing I'm the mean character here. This is my story, my life. So if I'm the main character, it's not a lot of stories and movies that end with the main character just down and out and despondent, right? Like that's the middle...
Adia Gooden: It would be fun to watch.
Esther Boykin: Right. Yeah. Like we're sort of waiting for like, oh, what's the lesson they're going to learn? What's the skill they're going to claim? What’s the thing they're going to discover about themselves that then carries them whatever kind of is the next piece? And can we see ourselves in that way, can we really own like, oh, I'm writing my story. And so it is important to look back (00:40:00) for context, but the truth is I need to be present to right now so that I can set myself up for whatever its, I'm hoping, you know, the next phase looks like.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. I love that you're sort of taking this hero's journey and really sort of giving a frame so that people can apply it to their own lives, right? Like how can you be the hero in your journey? And, you know, as our time comes to a close, I'm wondering if, because I know you talk a lot about self-compassion, you talk about it in your TEDx talk. I wonder if you could share maybe your favorite self-compassion practice or your favorite way that you use self-compassion in your own life, or you advise clients to use it as a really good takeaway for everyone listening so that they're like, okay, like I need to work on some of these things and I want to start to do the work and actually take action. What might you recommend?
Esther Boykin: So I actually talk about this in my, I kind of lay it out in my Ted talk is sort of three main things, right? Like, how do we self-kindness, mindful awareness, common humanity? And so in a more tangible, like what does that look like even in my own life is the self-kindness, and mindful awareness for me kind go hand in hand. So it really is about saying like, even if it's just like two minutes a day where you just stop what you're doing, no distractions. Just a second to like notice your own breath and genuinely pause and ask yourself. I like to ask like, okay, how do I really feel like I practice what I preach I sent, I don't think there's a single client of mine in all of the many years I've been doing this that I haven't been like, oh, we need a feelings chart.
We're getting a poster, we're getting a list of feeling words, but really kind of saying like, okay, how, what's happening inside for me?
And even as a therapist with a very large vocabulary of feeling words, even I struggle some days of like, huh, I don’t know what I'm feeling. I'm like, okay, well we need to pause a little longer. What do I need? How can I be more gentle with myself? Like really kind of, and that's sort of that the pause allows you the space that mindfulness allows you the space to be a little kinder to yourself, right? Like I always say like, imagine if you know a friend or even, you know, sometimes you're just like, you stop at a coffee and the person asks you and the way they ask you how you're doing, makes you feel like they want an honest answer that moment, regardless of whether you give them an honest answer in that moment, there is a level of kindness and compassion that you feel a sense of being seen as an actual human being in the world that you can give to yourself.
And so like that's how we want to ask the question. And then I think the other part kind of going back to obviously my relational roots is just reminding yourself that you're not alone. I don't think that we pay enough attention to how often we feel lonely. And I don't care if you're married with eight kids that all live with you or you live by yourself, whatever your life looks like, whether you work from home, you work in a big office. Most of us have periods of time where we really feel lonely. I think a lot of people experience that in the last couple of years. And we really do need to be reminded that we're not by ourselves that we, even when we don't immediately connected, we're in fact connected to human beings that just that sense of belonging also allows us to feel more compassionate for ourselves.
Adia Gooden: That's great. That's wonderful. Well, Esther, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast, for sharing your wisdom with us. It was really helpful and insightful and I know that people are going to want to connect with you further. So will you let people know where they can find you and how they can connect with you?
Esther Boykin: Absolutely. So you can find me, you can find me basically everywhere. LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter. I'll tell people I'm most on Instagram so if you would like me to respond to you like in a timely fashion, find me on Instagram. And it’s @estherbmft, it's E-S-T-H-E R, B for Boykin, MFT for Marriage and Family Therapist. And then I always like tell people if you visit, so I do run private practice and we also do, therapy is not a dirty word. If you visit estherboykin.com, you'll find links to all of the companies, the services that I offer, so that's probably a good starting.
Adia Gooden: Awesome. Well, thank you much.
Esther Boykin: Thank you.
Adia Gooden: And I appreciate your time, your energy, your wisdom.
Esther Boykin: Oh, thank you so much. This has been lovely. I'm just really honored to have been on the show today.
Adia Gooden: Thanks. Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode (00:45:00). You can also follow me on social media at @dradiagooden. If you love the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
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Our society has become hyperfocused on creating the image that we have all our sh*t together. When in reality, we’re all a bit uncertain or afraid on the inside… and that’s okay! That’s how we know we’re human. But how can we ensure life feels great, beyond just looking great on the outside?
In this episode, I welcome Esther Boykin, a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist who wants to live in a world where everyone believes that Therapy Is Not A Dirty Word. Whether in her role as CEO of Group Therapy Associates, a coach, consultant, author, or media expert, Esther works daily to make mental health accessible, innovative, and culturally relevant for all people. If you haven’t already seen Esther’s Tedx Talk, I highly recommend you watch it after listening to this episode!
Listen in as Esther and I talk about how to move beyond just making your life look great and ensure your life feels great. We talk about her experience getting divorced and how that impacted her relationship with herself and her self-worth. Then, Esther shares her favorite self-compassion practice and offers powerful tips on navigating (and ending) relationships of any kind.
“Oftentimes, part of what’s missing in our struggle to feel loved and to connect with our worthiness is that we’re not allowing people to see all of us.” - Esther Boykin
We tend to build up the outside of our lives while neglecting the inside. Sometimes, we hide the messiest parts of ourselves and avoid intimacy with people who are closest to us. Perhaps it’s because we may not know how to communicate that we’re struggling or that life isn’t going as planned. Perhaps something happened in our childhood that prevents us from opening up and showing the imperfect parts of ourselves.
But why is this so important? Why is it important to show others what’s really going on inside? When people see not just the shiny outside, but the rusty inside, and they love and care for you regardless, that’s what deeply affirms our unconditional worthiness.
Not everybody needs to know every deep, dark thought you have… But the more that your loved ones can see the imperfections, the uncertainties, the fears, and the humanity within you, the more you can allow them to fully see and love you. If you don’t let them in, they don’t even have the option to know, love, accept, and care for you fully. Take a moment for that to sink in…
Of course, it can feel scary to be this vulnerable. If you’re always in the role of being strong and having your sh*t together, it’s likely that, to an extent, the people around you expect that from you now. Don’t let that deter you from sharing your truth. Therapy and/or coaching can be a great first place to practice having the experience of another person holding space for you to be messy, to be uncertain, or to be anything else that you hide away from others. Therapists and coaches will listen, they won’t judge you, and they’ll hold space for you to practice sharing your true self.
Eventually, you can learn how to model that in your own life. Esther says that as you start to hold space for others, it’s amazing how others begin to open up to you about their problems.
“Part of developing that sense of love, of compassion, of worthiness, happens in real time,” Esther says, “It requires us to be engaged in relationships.” Relationships motivate all of our behavior, so they can be rich learning environments.
So, are you ready to tap into the richness your life has to offer?
How to Start Making Your Life FEEL Great:
Practice being imperfect and “falling apart” in front of others, ideally with a therapist or coach first.
Give people the opportunity to show up for you.
Recognize the patterns created in your childhood that prevent you from being vulnerable with others and showing your imperfections.
Practice self-compassion, especially when you’re having a hard time or when you make a mistake. Compassion is a magic tool that helps you deal with the messiness of life so you can show up for the richness of life. Tune in to hear Esther’s favorite self-compassion practice she uses with her clients!
Don’t expect your relationships to be perfect and effortless… and don’t expect them to last forever. Relationships serve a special purpose, they are rich learning environments.
You are not alone in this. So many of us struggle to be vulnerable, show our true selves to others, and have compassion for our inner messiness. Just remember, it takes practice!
“Loving another human being is never a waste of time.” - Esther Boykin
About Esther Boykin:
Esther Boykin is a psychotherapist who wants to live in a world where everyone believes that Therapy Is Not A Dirty Word. Whether in her role as CEO of Group Therapy Associates, a coach, consultant, author, or media expert, she works daily to make mental health accessible, innovative, and culturally relevant for all people.
In 2004 with a Master of Science from Virginia Tech and a vision of making mental health widely accessible to all, Esther Boykin began her career as a marriage and family therapist.
Through the division of her company called Therapy Is Not A Dirty Word, Esther brings therapy ideas and therapists outside of the office and into modern culture through media, events, and retreats that focus on her relentless mission to increase access and reduce stigma.
Esther is also the author of two books and a sought-after relationship and mental health expert. She has worked with Verizon, Deluxe Media, Ellevate and many other leading corporations. Recently named a top 21 relationship expert by Cosmopolitan magazine, Esther has appeared on NBC’s Today show, Bravo’s Real Housewives of Potomac, HuffPost, Good Morning Washington, The Wall Street Journal, Coveteur, and a myriad of other media outlets.
To connect further with Esther Boykin:
Visit her website: https://estherboykin.com
Follow her on Instagram: www.instagram.com/estherbmft
Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherbmft
Listen to Esther’s Tedx Talk: The Antidote to Laziness Isn’t What You Think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97jYgIC8MO0
This episode is sponsored by Crys & Tiana, a podcast production company helping you take the guesswork out of launching and growing your podcasts. Book a strategy call today and start turning your podcast dreams into reality!
Get 25% off your first launch strategy session at https://www.crysandtiana.com/launchstrategy.
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana.
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