Learning to Trust Ourselves, Respect Our Bodies, and Believe We Are Worthy with Erin Starkey
— EPISODE 65 —
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Adia Gooden: (00:00:00) This episode is sponsored by Crys & Tiana taking the guesswork out of launching your podcast.
Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life, and how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
I'm delighted to welcome my good friend Erin Starkey onto the podcast today. We have been friends for over a decade, and it was just really wonderful to have her come on and share her expertise about intuitive eating and building our healthy relationship with our bodies, and really healing our relationship with food and relationship with our bodies. There are so many parallels between intuitive eating and learning to trust our bodies, to respect our bodies, and the work that we do on our self-work journeys. And I know that you all are going to find this episode incredibly helpful and insightful, especially for those of you who are like me and many other people who have had challenging relationships with your body or with food. I think this episode will be incredibly helpful, and Erin offers some really useful tips for places to start, right, places to start with respecting and honoring your body.
And I think in particular, this is going to be a useful episode as we are going into the holiday season very soon. And often that is characterized by a lot of guilt around indulging in sweets and treats and really enjoying yourself, but feeling guilty about it, or feeling like you have to judge yourself. And then following that up with, you know, feeling like you've got to restrict and, you know, get your body back together. And just all of these unhelpful and unhealthy narratives that so many of us have and so many of us have adopted. And so we talk about how you dismantle some of these things and how you heal, and how you build a healthy relationship with your body. So I know that you're going to find this episode so helpful. As always, tune in till the end and connect with us and let us know what you think. Let's get into the show.
I'm really excited to welcome my dear friend Erin Starkey to the podcast today. Erin is a licensed clinical social worker, certified intuitive eating counselor and certified health and wellbeing coach, who has worked as an interdisciplinary wellbeing expert and respected leader for over 15 years. Erin earned her BA in American Cultural Studies from Western Washington University and a MSW, summa cum laude from University of Illinois at Chicago. She previously worked as the Director of Mental Health Support at SGA Youth & Family Services, an Adjunct Lecturer at the University of Illinois at Chicago's Jane Adams College of Social Work, the University of Southern California, Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social Work, and a Health Equity Strategist with Justice Informed. Impressive. As a multi-sport athlete, Erin is passionate about helping people build positive relationships with their mind, body, and food to feel alive and thrive. As a black, mixed race clinician, she is driven daily in all that she does by the legacy of those that came before her and she is committed to making the world better for current and future generations to thrive. She authentically and eagerly shares her vast professional knowledge and lived experience through speaking, coaching, and therapy services, and I am incredibly honored to have you share your wisdom on the podcast today. So welcome Erin.
Erin Starkey: Thank you. I'm so honored and excited to be here. Such a lovely place for us to be able to be in together as friends and colleagues.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. So Erin and I have been, I mean now I'm like, how long has it been?
Erin Starkey: I know.
Adia Gooden: Over a decade.
Erin Starkey: Over a decade for sure. Yeah. I mean probably like 2010. Yeah. So over a decade.
Adia Gooden: Right? Like over a decade. So we know at least, right? And we became friends, we're in a dance ministry, we went to church together, and we have been through a lot, right? Like we've sort of like grown up, you know what I mean? Like young adults. So like, oh, really? We're grown. We're adults. Adults now. And we've had sort of like parallel we met when we were both in graduate school and, you know, are both in this sort of like mental health field, mental health wellness field. And so it's really exciting to connect in this way and have you on the podcast. And I'm going to start us off as I start all of my conversations with guests and ask you to share a bit about your own (00:05:00) self-worth journey.
Erin Starkey: Sure. Yeah. I love actually thinking about that kind of almost parallel to the way that we've known each other and just this idea of journeys. You know I really believe that like with identities and so many things, like there's so many aspects of our life that are fluid, and it can honestly say that, you know, my self-worth journey has been fluid in a lot of ways, right? Like ebbs and flows. And I've become even more aware of this in the last couple of years. And I'll kind of speak to why, but you know, really, I've heard other people on your podcast speak to this that, you know, I think there's a lot of my self-worth journey that has been shaped by early childhood, multiple years, different times in my life where I felt othered. And, you know, one thing that has been really central and I think foundational that I recognize is a blessing in my life is that I have been surrounded by the people closest to me with a lot of love.
So I often, you know, got the message very early on that I was wanted, that I was needed in the world, that I was loved, that I was neat. And you know, for that, it even gives me chills to say it because it was so deep. You know, on the flipside of that, I had to come to learn to believe that myself. And sometimes that can be different, right? We get all these external messages about our worth, about our value and, you know, how do we internalize that? And for me, as I said when I was younger, there were certainly a lot of spaces and times where I felt like I was the only, and it's really important to note that it's felt like it wasn't that I actually was the only, but I often felt like the only black mixed race person. I often felt like the only child of a single parent. The only person that had half-siblings, the only person that had mental illness in my family, right? So all of these things that made me feel different, that made me feel othered, that didn't make me feel connected and worthy at times that led me to kind of searching to fit in to find my value, find my worth.
And I, having that foundation, I think of knowing that I am uniquely and wonderfully made that came from my parents, that came from my extended family, that came from family friends who are like family, you know. And certainly my faith really was integral, has been integral to my self-worth journey. I, a Christian, you know, you mentioned we met in church and I feel very fortunate to also have been raised in a Christian home and of belief that God is love and I have to acknowledge and it makes me so sad that there are so many people that have experienced trauma within the church that have not been given messages from the church or about God or about a higher power that is love, that is worthiness. That is, you know, the idea that we are each here for a unique purpose and that that has value.
And so, you know, my faith has certainly been central to that. And I think because of also acknowledging that that's not the message, knowing that that's not the message that everybody has gotten within their faith, and really has certainly led me to value people, right? To value this idea of other religions, the idea of, you know, wherever we can find it, right? Kind of draw from this idea that there's a greater purpose in us being on this planet as individuals and as community, as a collective, I think has really been key to my own journey and to also recognizing kind of the worth in other people. You know, I can also say, and I kind of touched on that, you know, the journey is fluid and has shifted even recently in that I really have come to find a deeper level of self-worth since the passing of my mother. So my mother passed away in February, 2020, right before the pandemic. And I realized through some therapy, and some reflection that my mother was a voice of compassion for me through that voice. And, you know, my father had passed five years prior. I lost my, both my grandparents, my grandfather just right before my mom, who was very close to.
But, you know, as I said, when I was younger, I had all of these voices as their voices had passed on, right? Their voices had passed on in the literal sense. And so I have had to in the last couple of years, just dig a little deeper. I've moved across the country from where I was living when we met. I moved from Chicago back to the Pacific Northwest (00:10:00). And so it's a lot of searching, you know, during the last couple of years that I think has also really deepened my sense of self-worth. Because it's not, doesn't come from my family as much anymore. It doesn't come from the community that I was in for the last 15 years, right. It has to come from inside. And that's a journey. It's a journey.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I really appreciate that you're talking about being affirmed and love so deeply. And I think, you know, because I know you, I think of your grandfather and your incredibly close relationship with your grandfather and I, you know, had the honor of being able to meet your mom and, you know, her spunkiness and her love and like all of this stuff, and sort of, I have a picture of how you were loved, right? And, you know, I think often it can feel like, well, if you are loved, then you shouldn't have these challenges or these struggles. And I really appreciate that you're sort of saying, yes, I got it from the outside and the journey to developing my own internal voice and sense of worthiness, right? My own internal compassionate voice has been an ongoing journey. And you were blessed, you were so blessed to receive that affirmation from your family, from your faith, from religious communities and friends, and sort of as you haven't had your, you know, your mom, your grandfather, right?
Your grandparents there, your dad there physically on this earth to sort of verbally say and affirm you. It's sort of required you to cultivate some of that, you know, voice for yourself and affirmation for yourself.
And I think, you know, it's really helpful for people to hear, because I think one of the things that I think about is my grandmother who I think was sort of the person who loved me most unconditionally in the world. And I think often a way that we can tap into self-compassion and start affirming our worth is by calling on drawing on the voice of a grandparent, a relative who we just know loved us, right? So much. And sort of like, what would they say to me? How would they encourage me? And for those who are kind of spiritual and sort of believe in spirit and something beyond when people pass, it can be helpful to even think about feeling their presence with you now, right? That yes, they may be gone from this earth, but that doesn't mean that their spirit is gone. And using that, using faith belief in a higher power to remind you that you're more than what you do or more than what you accomplish. And these people have loved you beyond those things.
Erin Starkey: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that it can be both and, right? I mean, I know, like I personally love that saying in our work, you know, it can be both. And like we can have both those external, you know, kind of voices and then our own internal, right? We can both recognize that it, you know, I also have had a lot of privileges in terms of my education in terms of, you know, I say this humbly, but my appearance, right? In a lot of ways, things that have afforded me different opportunities, different levels of acceptance, even at times when I've also struggled, right? With feeling accepted and finding that words that it can really be both we need kind of need all of it.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. I mean, I think, I actually remember, so when I was working on my TEDx talk, I was like practicing and Erin and a number of other friends, like came over, helped me practice. And I think it was in that place, I was kind like, okay, what's your feedback? And I think it might have been you who was like, well, what about like support from other people? Like you're not talking about that? And I was like, oh, yeah. Like that's a big one. And so that then became incorporated as like one of the core practices that I suggest to people. Because it is so important, right? We're not supposed to be doing this on our own. And the support and the love that we get from other people can be really powerful. I think in the language of therapy, we often talk about corrective experience. So maybe you've had a traumatic experience with one person. Let's say you had a relationship that was traumatic and then you get enter into another relationship that's healthy and that can be a corrective experience, right? The idea is that it helps to heal the past wounds and trauma and show you that there's a different way that you could be treated, that you could be affirmed, that you could be loved, right? And so I think there's so much power in community and in relationships to support us on our self-worth journeys.
Erin Starkey: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And seeing that models, you know, I think another thing I really valued and our, you know, relationship, our friendship is this idea of kind of sharing of experiences, you know, and this idea that, gosh, you know, I did this in the workplace, this is how it turned out for me, you know, maybe you're going to try this, right? Because so oftentimes too, it's not just in our more personal relationships and community (00:15:00), also in those professional spaces where we so often try, right? To kind get that sense of work, strive to control that level of success and value. And so to really be able to be in those spaces knowing our worth, you know, very different. And to have, I think for me, that certainly is another space where that's been a part of my journey, is that professionalism.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things that you focus on now professionally is helping people to sort of make peace with their body, make peace with their food, and with their eating. And, you know, I feel like you take an approach that's pretty unique, right? Like there's a lot of polarization, I would say in that world, at least from my view. And I'm wondering how you see sort of people making peace with their body and their food and thriving. How do you see that being connected to believing in self-worth, believing that people, that they are worthy?
Erin Starkey: Yeah, great question. I mean, it's absolutely connected and the very basic sense that we all have a body. We all need food, right? And we all have a mind that, you know, influences ideas around those relationships, right? This relationship between our mind and our body. And, you know, we really, those of us who are privileged, right? It is a privilege. You know, I want to certainly acknowledge that to be able to do some of this work, this idea, healing our relationship with food to healing our relationship with our body is oftentimes related, you know, and certainly connected to having different levels of privilege. Whether that's the time, right? To kind of address these things, whether that's the energy, the, you know, financial, right. Means to be able to make different choices with food or to kind of experiment, you know, which is often a part of it with food. And, you know, to be able to heal, right? To be able to heal from trauma that we've had around our bodies and around our food. Or to be able to put ourselves in situations where we're not constantly re-traumatized, you know, in our relationship with our body and food.
And so I think it's really important to just, you know, acknowledge that and that healing is part of that self-worth journey when it comes to our bodies, when it comes to food. You know, there is a, I don't believe that any of us are born, right, kind of critical ideas about our bodies and the worth and the value of who we are as it's connected to our bodies. You know, similarly with food, you know, we are of course by our parents, you know, and caretakers and communities are possibly presented with different types of foods. But we certainly don't, you know, naturally kind of have these ideas, these rules these internal critics when it comes to food. And so, you know, a lot of it is really just like we might heal from other experiences, other messages. We might be looking to different people or digging deep within ourselves to figure out our self-worth and, you know, other aspects of our life, certainly when it comes to our body and food that is the same, we've been given messages, right? So we lean into them or we need to learn to drown them out. You know, we need to think about ourselves as the experts in our lives and ourselves and the experts, as experts when it comes to knowing what's best for our bodies, knowing what's best in our relationship with food and what foods are best for us.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. Yeah. I imagine that there's a lot of dismantling that has to happen. And part of what I think about is, you know, how subtle the messages can be. I'm sort of thinking both from the perspective of like being a new mom and like being mindful of like, how am I going to talk about my body? How am I going to carry myself physically? How am I going to talk about food, right? Like what are those things going to look like so that I don't, you know, send messages that are unhelpful to my daughter about food, about bodies, right? And then I also sort of like in more recent years have started to like think about messages that I got from my parents, right? So there's messages from society, there's lots of them. But messages from my parents that were sort of like more subtle, but in some ways problematic, right? And sort of realizing, and then also it's always interesting to like realize this and then like spend time with them and be like, huh, hmm, okay, right? Like that's not actually what we would, you know, what we would want to talk about right now or like how we'd want to talk about that, you know?
So it's interesting because I think it can be so subtle. Obviously there are some people who probably heard, you know, there are people who are like at age 10, I got on a diet and I've been on a diet every year of my life since then, and I'm 40, right? And it's like so for them it's probably been like more on the note, like out in the open. And then there's also the other like (00:20:00), oh, you're going to eat that. Oh, you know, we're going on it, we're going on vacation soon, and so we're not going to, right. Like so I wonder how you kind of think about helping people to even become more aware of some of these messages than beliefs they've internalized and start that healing journey and start to dismantle those beliefs and ideas?
Erin Starkey: Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea of observing our families and observing our friends. It can be like our own little secret. And by ours, I mean, everybody listening to this, right? I mean, it is, it can be, it's often a great place to start, it's just simply observe, right? To observe the behaviors of other people, to observe the own and behaviors that you maybe just or have it at this point, right? Like those automatic thoughts or the, you know, way that you react when you walk by yourself in a mirror or a window, you know, just kind of beginning to get curious, right? We want to start with curiosity and really looking for those messages. And the wonderful thing that can happen when we do that, I feel is that we've recognize that it's not just our voice, it's not in our heads, right? Like these messages have come from places, you know, it's anticipated in 2023 that the tire (ph) industry is going to be almost a $300 billion industry messages that are constantly worrying us and then those more subtle ones, like you're saying, maybe that have even been within our household. So certainly starting by observing.
And I think, you know, also thinking about where do we feel comfortable speaking up? When do we feel comfortable speaking up? You know, a nice way that we can do that is thinking about other things that over time we've become really comfortable speaking up about more. And for some of us it might be, you know, other marginalized communities. For some people it might be the environment, it might be, you know, something that you've studied and you know really well. So, you know, kind of aligning with where else do I feel comfortable, you know, what makes me feel comfortable and safe to speak up and playing with it. You know, everybody has just like everybody has a body and everybody eats food. Everybody has a story. You know, that's partly why I love doing this work is that everybody has a food story. Everybody has a body story. So it can take very little to kind of shift the conversation, to shift the tone, right, to change the environment when it comes to these ideas around our bodies and food and dieting, all of that.
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It also just makes me think about how many people feel like the way you look is also another thing that's going to make you worthy, right? I mean as we live in this world where I think a couple things. One is social media, right? Like we always talk about social media, but like people are putting images of themselves out so much more often. When we were younger, like you weren't sort of always needing to be camera ready because there wasn't a camera on everybody's phone like. And you know, like you weren't sort of constantly thinking, oh, is this going to be posted and what am I going to wear and how do I look? Or you're not, that just wasn't part of our way of operating. And I also think the sort of like reality TV and sort of like proximity to celebrities (00:25:00) who sort of almost always have their hair and makeup done professionally. Makes you sort of feel like I should do that or look like that, or that's what gets a lot of likes or that's what get, you know what I mean? And so that can so easily become another sort of way of trying to prove you're worthy, right? If you just, you know, look like this, dress like this, right? Like those sort of physical appearance things, and then you have, you know, then you have like, oh, this workout plan, this diet plan, this like coming at you sort of constantly on social media that that's another way of achieving it's another, right? Like there's so much stuff that gets caught up in the food, in the body image that I'm sure like comes through when you're working with people. It's like, okay, it's not just like what are you eating physically? Like putting in your mouth. It's also like, yeah, what are the stories that you have about what you eat, about what's okay to eat, what's not okay to eat, when it's okay to eat, right? Like there's so much that goes into all of this.
Erin Starkey: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, and when you talk about being a mother, right? That kind of adds another element or, you know, maybe being a caretaker. You know, one thing too that I think, you know, is kind of interesting thing is that later stages in life, like a lot happens with our bodies, you know, a lot happens with our bodies and we maybe can't control as much, you know, kind of the size of our bodies not that we ever really could, but you know, there's our appetites I should say, maybe I think, you know, shift a great deal but then, you know, cause people to maybe lose weight. And so it's very interesting, I think when we think about different stages in life, right, as well, you know, about how these messages might change, how these things might change.
And, you know, this of course media, of course, you know, I can think about like my lifetime, you know, we've gone from like Kate Moss to Kim Kardashian and you know, like all these things kind of like what's in vogue as it relates to bodies. And certainly if we're trying to follow that, it can be very, very confusing, you know, to say the least. You know, being an athlete when we think about sport, right? Kind of like who are we looking to? What images are we seeing associated with different sport and how we might, you know, have our bodies and being influenced in our ideas of worth and value and success, you know, as it relates to kind of what our bodies should look like or what they should be able to do physically is certainly something that we need to dismantle you, we need to break down.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. It makes me think of sort of Serena Williams and Misty Copeland, right? Like two black women who don't have the typical bodies, right? For to be successful in these areas, right? Serena Williams, obviously tennis star. I don't know if anybody, somebody may be listening in some part of the world that doesn't know that, but Serena Williams is a tennis star, she's amazing. And Misty Copeland is a ballerina, right? And so, you know, one of the things that was often commented on is their bodies, right? They both have very powerful, muscular, strong bodies. They do not have the like super, super slim, super, super skinny, right? Bodies that are typical of, you know, white women in those spaces. And I think of sort of both the power of seeing them right in those spaces and seeing their amazing success and also what they had to go through, right? I know at least Misty Copeland has talked about like people commenting right on her body and how that meant she wasn't going to be successful and, you know, and how challenging that is, right? To be in spaces where people might explicitly be telling you your body isn't good enough or your body isn't okay. And then you know, how that gets internalized, right?
So I know one of the things that you talk a lot about and you teach about and have been trained in is intuitive eating. And so I'm hoping that you can share with us like, what is that? Because my sense of it is cursory, but my sense is that it leads into like self-trust and that you have to sort of dismantle some of these internalized beliefs about your body that might be unhelpful or about what you can or shouldn't, shouldn't, should, and shouldn't eat and all of that in order to practice intuitive eating or intuitive eating helps you with that. And I'd love for you to share kind of like what is intuitive eating? How does it help people on this sort of healing journey in terms of their relationship with food and their relationship with their bodies?
Erin Starkey: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I love the ideas of like Misty Copeland and Serena Williams. One thing too just with that, that's really, and again, just being curious, make some observations (00:30:00), how much people talk about their bodies? I mean, they're like world class athletes, right? World class athletes, and there's so much conversation about their bodies. And so, you know, I think it's, again, like we do live in an appearance driven culture. And so of course this is challenging, of course, it's hard for us to think about our worth coming from something beyond our body. You know, the appearance of it and the ability of it. So, you know, with intuitive eating, one reason that it's so nicely tied, of course, you know, to this idea of self-worth is as you're mentioning this idea of trust it's also a very compassion focused framework. So it's really a compassion focused framework to help people heal their relationship with their body and foods to guide them and their relationship with their body and food and movement that allows them to find a place of self-respect.
You know, there is a bit of polarization. There is a lot of messages out there around intuitive eating and health at every size and body positivity, body neutrality. And I am thankful that the conversations are being had. It's much more than we've had in the past. And it can be confusing. It can be a lot to kind of manage. And, you know, with intuitive eating, it is a process, you know, it's a process of getting to that place of respecting our bodies. And, you know, I emphasize respect because from the place that I practice, that doesn't mean that every day we wake up and we love our bodies, right, oh God I’m so good. I'm not waking up feeling that way every day, right? I'm not going to promise that the people that I work with wake up feeling that way every day. But what we do decide that we can work towards, and I say work towards this, doesn't always happen, right? But that we can work towards respecting our bodies, we can work towards things that help us recognize all that our bodies are capable of beyond kind of performance or beyond appearance.
We can learn that just as it's important to build trust in a intimate relationship with a partner, trust with an employer. It's important to build that relationship of trust with ourselves and our bodies. That our bodies will tell us what we need. They will tell us if we need movements, they will tell us if we need rest. Our bodies will tell us if we're hungry, they will let us know if we're full. And we have to kind of get back to that early infancy state, right? You've got a baby, I bet she tells you like I don’t want to eat right now.
Adia Gooden: She tells me.
Erin Starkey: Or I want to eat right now and I want to eat again in 30 minutes, right. Or an hour. And so, you know, I mean, we want to kind of figure out how can get back to this place an intuitive eatable, I think is really beautiful framework. It's not the only way, but I think it can be a really beautiful framework for finding that compassion and that trust.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. I mean, it just feels so powerful, right? To start listening and trusting that your body knows what it needs versus the overriding, which is, I shouldn't be hungry, I shouldn't be, I shouldn't want this, I shouldn't eat that, right? Like the sort of constant overriding of your body's messages instead of the trusting and I love the respect framework. I just, in the little you're saying, it just feels like, especially for people with body image challenges and with challenging relationship with food that going, you know, going on an intuitive eating, healing journey could really be a pathway into self-worth, right? Really be a pathway of relearning to trust yourself, affirm that you're worthy, affirm that your body is worthy of respect, take care of it really deeply. And it sounds just incredibly powerful.
Erin Starkey: Yeah. Absolutely. And we really, you know, think about that there's so many reasons that we eat, right, because we're hungry. Yes. But we also eat for pleasure and satisfaction. When I think about self-worth, right? Like we're worthy of pleasure, we're worthy of satisfaction, right? Like we're worthy of taking care of ourselves, of listening to ourselves, of taking the space. You know, I mean, there certainly can be mindfulness components to intuitive eating work. And so really, you know, not only just drowning out the noise, and the messages and all of that, but really coming to this place of finding the joy in all of it. And finding the pleasure and the self-respect in that sense too.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. I mean, I love that you bring up like, pleasure, right? Because I just think as women, as black women, like claiming our right to pleasure. Like outlandish, you know what I mean? (00:35:00) Like how could you, you know what I mean? Like on so many levels, right? Like sexual pleasure, but just like it doesn't even have to be sexual. Like the idea that you would want to enjoy deeply to feel, as you said, satisfied. Like you are not, it's like this underlying message, like that's not what you're supposed to want. You can be here to be of service, right? You can be here to serve others, to take care of others, right? Like but pleasure, you know, and we think, I mean, even I think about like black women self-care, you know, practices generally center. And I think this is not just true of black women, it's certainly true of women of other identities, but center on hair and nails, right. And maybe some people find that pleasurable.
For me, not so much, like I like when my nails look nice, but people will notice, like I almost never have my nails done because it's not really like I don't. A massage. Yes. Pleasurable. I very much enjoy that. But like sitting in a hair shop like I did on Monday for like six hours, like no, I don't, I don't enjoy it. Like do I want my hair done so I don't have to deal with it? Yes. Is that pleasurable? No. But it's oriented around how do I appear to other people? Not how do I feel in my body? Do I feel good? You know, it's like, so yeah. I just, I love that you're bringing up this like pleasure that this enjoyment, the satisfaction. Because I do think that as we give ourselves permission to experience those things in life, we're teaching ourselves, we're worthy of it. We deserve it, right. And not just like, work yourself to the bone, and you can barely get onto the plane to go on the vacation and that's what you can enjoy like…
Erin Starkey: You’re exhausted once you're there. Yeah. You're angry. Yeah. I mean, no.
Adia Gooden: Exactly.
Erin Starkey: Completely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm with you on the nail thing. I love having them done. I’ve actually have some thought side note, and if anybody knows about this, I'd be curious, I would love to get my nails done in the middle of night, so I could just like, not take the time, it's just like I've thought about this. I'm like I bet Beyoncé gets her nails done at middle of night.
Adia Gooden: She's just laying, somebody's just silently.
Erin Starkey: Yes. Total tangent there. But I feel you and that's the point, right? I mean, that's the point. Like there's so many different, and it's actually days things, you know, that that's really interesting to talk about with people when we think about our bodies is clothing, right? It like are you comfortable in your clothes? Like so often that can be such a good place to start in this work. We have gone through a journey with our bodies where we're doing different sizes at different times, you know, for whatever reason. You know, do the clothes that you have in your closet right now fit you? Are they comfortable? Like right now in this moment as you're listening to this, like are you comfortable in your clothes?
And I think when we like take away those simple things, right? And by simple, I mean, yes, we have to have access and you know, we need to have of course it feel like they kind of represent who we're and all of the things. So I don't mean to simplify it, but when we think about just these everyday things, right? You know, it's actually really quite interesting to kind of dig into some of that. And then how those subtle things lead to these circular thoughts about our bodies. We're not comfortable. If something feels tight, then we can often lead to a lot of self-blame, right? And we can get into this critical space. And so really there can be just a lot of places for entry I can say for this work too, which I think is really quite lovely about it. It's not scripted like a diet. It's not right or wrong. Where it feels most important to start.
Adia Gooden: And I think that can be sort of the scary thing for like, for a structured achieve oriented person like me. And I'm like, tell me what to do, you know? And it's like, and I've, you know, worked on unlearning that, although I still have that part of me, but to like have it be sort of an open field and to have your curiosity lead you or to have the parts where you feel most uncomfortable be the start or the parts of your life where there's the most tension. Like, oh, I always have dessert, but I beat myself up about it, right. Like maybe that's the start. You know, it's also making me think about sort of how I've been sort of wrestling some, with some of these topics and thinking about them in my own life over this, you know, last year of like being pregnant, right. And now being a new mom, right. Like in pregnancy there was the, you know, (00:40:00) first of all morning sickness and first trimester, which was no fun. But then being like ravenous, like ravenous and like feeling like I just had to eat all the things. And also feeling like that was okay. Like the old stuff was sort of put away. Because it was like, well I'm pregnant and thankfully I didn't get caught up in like, how much am I weighing and how much because I, and I had caregivers, I had providers who were not, who were not like, you are gaining too much weight. Because I definitely gained more than the recommended amount of weight.
And thankfully exactly, “more than the recommended amount of weight” right. And I thankfully just had caregivers who were not like, you're gaining too much weight and was able myself to kind of like disconnect from the weight and trust. Like if I'm ravenous, that means I need to eat. That means my body, my baby, somebody needs some nourishment. And it's also been interesting now that I'm, you know, have given birth because, you know, I'm sort of closer to the size I was before now, but not completely. But there's definitely a period where it was just like, nothing fits. Maternity clothes don't fit, my old clothes don't fit, which is sort of a literally uncomfortable experience of like, I'm trying to get dressed and there's nothing to wear and I don't feel comfortable. So it's like, how do I sit with that without beating myself up? And then there's also this interesting thing now, which is, you know, I'm breastfeeding so I'm like, oh, I notice like if I don't eat enough. I will not produce enough breast milk. And so then there's also this orientation of like I got to up my nourish, like I cannot slack on this. Like I have to like make sure that I'm really eating because I'm feeding two people. So it's sort of like there's so much in there, but I'm grateful that I've like started to do some of the work of like letting go of some of the rules and some of the, I need to look like this and this is what makes me worthy. I'm not all the way there. But I'm grateful because there's so much that changes in a year if you're pregnant and then not pregnant and I, you know, it could be something else for someone else. But I certainly have sort of been observing myself and how I'm moving through this. And trying to offer myself a lot of grace. And be observant of what do I need? Like okay. Yeah. I maybe generally try not to eat after whatever time. Like I'm hungry, I'm going to eat. Like yeah.
Erin Starkey: Yeah. I love, I love all of that and thank you for sharing that. Because I think probably so many people can relate. So many people can relate to that. And, you know, I haven't had child but I've trained for like endurance events, you know, trained for half or marathon, half marathon, half Ironman, right? So body transformation is naturally going to happen when you're biking and swimming and running a ton. So, I mean, you know, and whatever it might be for people, you know, another thing too that I think is really important to and recognize this illness, you know, sometimes our bodies change and our relationship with food changes, you know, not out anything related to, you know, this idea of appearance or diet culture, right. But because our bodies are like fighting something or we're having to put things into our bodies that are making our bodies respond in ways that feel out of our control. So that grace, that curiosity for whatever the reason we're going through these changes, you know, I think is so important and to lean into and to give gratitude for the people that do accept us as we are, surround ourselves more and more around people that do that, you know, that have their own positive or curious or neutral relationships with their bodies. I'm not saying, you know, ditch your best friend, but you know, I think just like other things if, you know, you're sharing, it was so helpful during that time, right? To not message from people that were close to you to be feeling accepted and loved regardless of that. And so we certainly want to lean in, especially if we're in a more vulnerable state for whatever reason around our body.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, that's actually a place where I think social media can be helpful is like if you're intentional about curating who you follow, right? Because there are people who, you know, I think I find inspiring because they are fully sort of embodied in and they are embodies that are not aligned with the thin, you know, white norm or even aligned with the like thick in the right way, thin in the right way, nor it, right. But, and they're like fully in their bodies and like really living joyfully and living, you know, like wearing what they want to wear and moving in the way they want to move in the world. And those accounts like I find it very helpful to follow because it's like this picture of liberation and of freedom that can remind me, right. Like that I don't (00:45:00) need to like try to make myself look a certain way. And I think I encourage people to think about that. Like be intentional if you're following accounts where every time you see it, it makes you feel not good enough or like you need to change something or eat different. Like stop following those accounts. And try to find some that are like, oh, like inspire to be like, yeah, I can wear that. Or like, oh yeah, like I'm hungry for this and like, yes. Like let me indulge and enjoy that, right? Because I think that can also, it's like a counter message that can be really helpful.
Erin Starkey: Completely. Completely. Yeah. And when you're looking for clothes, right? I mean there is a little bit more body diversity long ways to go there, but a little bit more body diversity in fashion, you know. And so like also when you're thinking about what brands do you support, right? What you know, kind of who are you looking at when you're looking at ideas for your next outfit to wear to wherever, you know, again, looking to those accounts that maybe have people that look a little bit more like you, you know, or present and that bold and free, right? I have to think of like want to bold and free in my body.
Adia Gooden: I love that.
Erin Starkey: You know, I want that for people that I work with. This idea of freedom certainly and being able to be bold and just find that level of acceptance, right, is really important.
Adia Gooden: I love that. I mean, I think that this conversation is so helpful and I am imagining that a lot of people are going to resonate with it. Because I think there's not enough healthy conversations happening about, you know, how we relate to our bodies and how we relate to food. And I think the framework of intuitive eating seems really empowering and really helpful. And it just feels very aligned with the self-worth journey, right? Like how can you offer it? How can you be curious? How can you be compassionate? How can you trust yourself? How can you respect yourself and honor yourself, right? Like these are all themes that I sort of talk about when you're thinking about the self-worth journey. And so again, I would just really encourage people who this resonates with, who you're like, oh, like my body image, my food stuff, like this is a stumbling block for me. This is such a challenge. Like follow Erin, you know, learn about intuitive eating because I think that this can be a really powerful pathway to healing. And so Erin, I know that people are going to want to connect with you further and I'd love for you to just kind of share how people can follow you or connect with you, stay connected.
Erin Starkey: Yeah, absolutely. Before I do that, one thing too, that I just want to squeeze in, you know, is that I think one thing that's really unique and the idea that I really appreciate about have this conversation is that it's among two black women, right? So like this idea, right? Like the idea of body image, the idea of eating disorder, disorder eating is happening in the BIPOC community and it is often associated with white people, right? Like historically there's a lot more attention, a lot more research, a lot more resources for the white community and, you know, other non-marginalized, you know, communities I think that it's really important that we recognize it's really a conversation that needs to be have in this space, right? In our communities. And that there are a lot of resources that we're trying to continue to build, and something for to be able to be part of some of those efforts and if you are somebody that identifies as BIPOC or another marginalized community, you know, I encourage you also to seek unique spaces around this issue with the community that you identify with because it's really important that we have those conversations too in those spaces.
Adia Gooden: Yeah. Thanks for shouting that out. I would say Food Heaven, a podcast that we both listen to. I was able to be on it a couple of times, is a really great resource if you're sort of, they, they have some episodes on intuitive eating and they talk its two Afro-Latina women who are dieticians and they're talking about food and bodies and eating and all of those things. And so that's a really, if you're like, oh, I want another podcast to listen to. That would be a great one to check out as well. And we can link that in the show notes too.
Erin Starkey: Yeah, absolutely. So to find me, a good place to do that would be via my website just is my name. So my first Erin with an erinustarkey.com. And on Instagram @erinustarkey.
Adia Gooden: Awesome. And we will link that in the show notes. Erin shares lots of like great tips about thinking about food and your body and, you know, she's an athlete so you kind of also get to see like, oh my gosh, she just did a triathlon. That's incredible. So I (00:50:00) highly encourage you to follow her and I know that Erin also has a really great newsletter. So if you want to kind of join in and she sends great emails every week, giving tips and things to think about, things that will shift your mindset that are similar to kind of what she shared today. So I'd really encourage you all to get on that list. I know I found her emails helpful. So yeah, follow us. Let us know what you think. And Erin, thank you so much. It's been really wonderful to have this conversation with you. I feel like we could have talked more and more, so we'll probably, I'll have to have you back on the podcast because there's so much more we can dig into. And I really appreciate it and I appreciate you.
Erin Starkey: Thank you. I appreciate you too. And thank you to all the listeners, we appreciate you as well.
Adia Gooden: Awesome. Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode. You can also follow me on social media @dradiagooden. If you love the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
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Do you trust yourself? Do you respect your body and the food that goes into it? Do you believe that you are worthy?
As we’re heading into the holiday season, there are a lot of unhelpful, guilt-driven narratives around food and body image. Dismantling these narratives and connecting with our unconditional worthiness will help you block out the unhelpful messages and build a healthy relationship with your body, mind, and food.
In this episode, I welcome Erin Starkey, a Speaker and Licensed Clinical Social Worker. Erin is also a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and Certified Health and Wellbeing Coach who has worked as an interdisciplinary wellbeing expert for over 15 years, supporting those who are striving to make peace with their mind, body, and food.
Listen in as Erin and I talk about what it takes to trust yourself, respect your body, and deeply believe that you are worthy. We talk about intuitive eating as a tool for healing our relationship with food and body image, as well as a tool to build trust in yourself. Then, Erin shares insightful tips on where to start in creating a healthy relationship with food and fully honoring your body.
Making peace with your body and food enables you to believe in your unconditional self-worth. In the very basic sense, we all have a body, we all eat food, and we all have a mind that influences our relationship with our body and food. None of us are born with critical ideas about our bodies. We see babies laughing and embracing their big, round bellies and chunky arms all the time! Erin emphasizes that throughout our lives, we’ve been exposed to tons of messages around body image and food, so we need to either lean into them or drown them out. We need to think of ourselves as the expert of our life and the expert of knowing what’s best for our own body.
Becoming aware of these harmful messages is a powerful first step towards dismantling them and creating a strong, healthy relationship with yourself. Start by simply observing the things you, your friends, and your family say about your body and eating habits as well as their own or others’. Then, notice what you feel comfortable speaking up about and where you can start to speak out against those harmful messages. Play with it. It can often take one question or statement to shift the conversation in a healthier, more positive direction.
Being a mother or caretaker adds a different layer to this journey. As we have children, a lot changes about our bodies and our relationship with food that we don’t have much control over. Thus, it’s important to return to that belief that we are the experts of our own lives. We know what food and movement is best for our bodies and for our children’s bodies, too.
Being an athlete also adds a different layer.
Being in the public eye adds a different layer.
Illness and trauma adds a different layer.
Being BIPOC adds a different layer.
Regardless of your occupation, lifestyle, culture, or history with food and body image, intuitive eating is a practice that can help you heal. You can use intuitive eating to dismantle internalized beliefs around what you should/shouldn’t look like and what you should/shouldn’t eat. In a basic sense, intuitive eating is the practice of letting your intuition decide what you eat. It’s about trusting your body to make food choices that feel good for you without judging yourself.
“As you’re mentioning this idea of trust, it’s also a very compassion-focused framework,” Erin says. It allows you to guide yourself in a way that enables you to find a place of self-respect and self-worth. Intuitive eating is a process and a journey. It doesn’t mean that we wake up everyday and LOVE our bodies, it just means that each day we are working towards respecting our bodies, choosing foods that we love to eat and that fuel us, and seeing what our bodies are capable of beyond performance or appearance.
“Just as it’s important to build trust in an intimate relationship with a partner, trust with an employer, it’s important to build trust with ourselves and our bodies… Our bodies will tell us what we need. They will tell us if we need movement, they will tell us if we need rest, our bodies will tell us that we are hungry. They will let us know if we are full. We have to get back to that early infancy state.” - Erin Starkey
You are worthy of taking the time and space to connect with the joy and pleasure of food, movement, and having a body. To get started, let your curiosity guide you to a starting place, perhaps to one of the following…
Ways to Start Trusting Yourself, Respecting Your Body, and Believing You’re Worthy:
Focus less on how you appeal to others and more on how you feel in your body. Are you comfortable in your clothes? Is the food you’re eating making you feel good? Are you pleased by how much movement your body gets? If not, it’s time to start making small changes.
The support and love you get from other people can be tremendously helpful in connecting to your self-worth. Remember how your loved ones, including those who have passed, have made you feel worthy and loved.
Start listening to and trusting what your body needs. Practice intuitive eating! Eat when you’re hungry. Stop when you feel full. Move your body when it feels like it needs movement. Rest when you need rest.
Join a supportive community and/or curate who you follow on social media. Surround yourself with people that have a curious, positive, or neutral relationship with their body. If you follow an account that makes you feel unworthy everytime you see their content, unfollow them!
About Erin Starkey:
Erin Starkey is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and dynamic speaker with a background of work and study in mental health, fitness and nutrition, sports, and business/leadership development. She has a respected reputation for delivering presentations to groups of all sizes, facilitating workshops, and giving keynote speeches on a variety of well-being topics both in person and via virtual platforms. In addition to speaking, Erin has a boutique private practice based in the Pacific Northwest where she supports clients who are striving to make peace with their mind, body, and food.
To connect further with Erin Starkey:
Visit her website: https://www.erinustarkey.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erinustarkey
Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinustarkey
Resources Mentioned:
Food Heaven Podcast: https://foodheavenmadeeasy.com/podcast
Erin Starkey’s Group Coaching Program: https://www.erinustarkey.com/group-coaching.html
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This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana.
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