How to Stop Erasing Yourself and Start Seeing Yourself with Amanda Miller Littlejohn
— EPISODE 88 —
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:00:05] Are you a high achieving professional BIPOC woman who is ready to claim your worth outside of the hustle? Are you ready to experience joy, peace, and contentment as you make an impact on the world without overextending yourself? Are you longing for a space that centers the experiences of women of color where you can practice leaning into the soft life without being expected to explain yourself or be responsible for other people? If you answered yes to these questions, I invite you to apply to join the Unconditionally Worthy Group Coaching Program. Here's what one of my former group coaching members, Felicia, had to say about how the program helped her.
Felicia [00:00:43] The program has encouraged me to put myself first and to actually think about what I wanted. That was another thing that came up for me. A lot of the times with the prompts and the modules, like, I don't know, because I never stopped to think about it. No one's ever asked me what I thought or what I felt about these particular scenarios. And that's been fun just discovering myself because it's like I originally started this program or with the thought or the attention to get back to myself. And the reality is, there was nothing to get back to because I'd never explored it. I don't know. So now it's just getting curious about what do I like? What do I want? How does this feel? And that's been incredibly helpful. And I'm excited for this new adventure to get to know myself.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:01:39] The next cohort starts the week of September 25th, 2023. Apply now, before spots fill up. I will personally review your application and invite you to join me for a call to discuss whether or not this program is right for you.
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Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:01:59] I help them to see the thing that's always been there, reconnect with it, communicate it powerfully so that they can start showing up, doing the thing they were put on earth to do.
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:02:15] Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life. And how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:02:56] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I really love this episode. I love the experience of talking to the guest. Her name is Amanda Miller Littlejohn. She is a journalist, she is a coach, she's a personal branding expert, and we really have a rich conversation about getting out of whole hustle and grind culture, about imagining possibilities for our lives, for our children's lives, about self erasure and how we can start seeing ourself. It is such a good conversation. I enjoyed having it, and I really believe that you're going to enjoy listening to it. So be sure to tune in. And as always, let us know what you think. I'd sincerely appreciate if you would share the episode with anyone who you think would benefit, and if you'd leave a rating or review on Apple Podcast that does so much to get more people listening to the podcast. So thanks so much for that in advance, and let's get into the show.
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I'm excited to welcome Amanda Miller Littlejohn onto the podcast. With a career spanning 15 years across journalism, public relations and coaching, Amanda has been a pioneering voice on personal branding, teaching her students and clients across the globe to package their genius ideas, strategies, and services so they can earn a living from their most impactful work. As the founder of Package Your Genius Academy, she works as an executive coach and executive storyteller, helping brilliant minds of color get their life-changing ideas into the world. Amanda is about helping leaders of color make themselves visible to combat erasure. A lifelong writer, Amanda is a contributing columnist, capturing the zeitgeist through her timely essays on work, rest, and Black women. Her writing has been published in the Washington Post, the Huffington Post and Los Angeles Times, and I am so excited to welcome Amanda to the podcast. We actually initially connected because she wrote a piece in the LA Times that I really resonated with, and I think I shared it.
And then somehow we got into the DMS, started messaging, and then we're trying to connect and the timing didn't work. And then we ran into each other in Puerto Rico, very randomly. And then now we're finally here, and she is here to share her wisdom and her insight in the podcast. So thank you so much for being here, Amanda.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:05:36] Thank you for having me. I'm excited we could finally make this happen.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:05:39] Yes, yes. Navigating busy schedules and moving around is sometimes a challenge.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:05:43] All over the place.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:05:44] But we made it.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:05:46] We made it. We did it, Joe.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:05:49] We did it. There we go. So I'd love to start our conversation where I start all my conversations with guests on the podcast, which is asking you to share a bit about your own self-worth journey.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:06:02] That's a great question. So my self-worth journey, of course, I believe has been lifelong, but kind of came to a hit for me during the pandemic when I was leading a group of women through my personal branding program. It's a cohort curriculum-based program, and all the women in the group were like women of color, high achieving, just hardworking, ambitious, highly effective and accomplished people. And we were working on just like helping them tell their stories more powerfully and claim all of the accolades and respect and recognition that their hard work deserves. And we started having these conversations about how we all have been groomed to work twice as hard for half as much. Like that was the narrative our parents had passed down to us, and we were exhausted. We were utterly exhausted.
And that kind of kicked off a season of me that coupled with burnout and coupled with, or tripled with me having a daughter, having a baby during the pandemic, having those conversations, experiencing physical and mental and emotional burnout, really forced me to come face-to-face with my own ideas about my identity as a hard worker and whether or not that label having a great work ethic, if that was a value, which I had always considered it to be a personal value. Or was it just the conditioning of my lived experience.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:07:49] Thank you for sharing that. I mean, I think I resonate, I know so many of the listeners will sort of resonate of the pandemic in so many ways, being this like wake up call, right? There was so much going on and we were all, or most of us were stuck at home, right? With all this open space, right? Because you couldn't kind of be as busy in the same ways. Like some of us were very busy still, but you sort of like had to look at what's working, what's not working? Is this something I really still want to do? And so I think a lot of people, it required this look, and I know for me part of it was like, okay, I left my job. So it sounds like for you, it was like, this hard work thing?
Is this something I'm still buying into? And I think it's very prescribed by culture. And then as you're saying, right? We're socialized into it as Black women, as people of color, right? And there's truth to it, right? We know that we can be criticized and picked at and not appreciated unless we are at the very top of our game. And yet sometimes trying to adhere to that means that we're not owning our humanity, the fact that we're humans and we need rest, and it's okay to make mistakes and all of those things. And so I appreciate you sharing that reflection and then also talking about how having a daughter and kind of thinking about what do I want to pass on to her and how do I want to show up for her, brought that out as well.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:09:19] Absolutely. I mean, it was, you talk about the pandemic being this time where people had a chance to stop. For me, I feel like I went overboard because I already work from home, work virtually, and I've been working that way for years. And so with everyone kind of in that mode, I don't know, like business was doing well. My groups were going well, my corporate work was going well, then I have this baby. And I realized at a certain point that like, I had never truly met my ceiling, like my capacity, right? Because a lifetime of overachieving, you have a high capacity for hard work, for good work, for doing things faster than other people can, being more productive.
And so the pandemic finally gave me a chance where it was like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm doing this, doing this, doing this, doing this. And it was just like, you can't do all of that, right? And I hit a wall. And when I started to kind of ask myself, and let me just be honest, the only reason I stopped to even consider something different was because my body forced me to, right? My body failed me. I got really, really sick. But I started to think about like, why am I so driven to work this way and work myself to exhaustion, work myself to a point where I am getting sick?
And I realized that I was conflating achievement with my worth and I was using achievement and had been using achievement since childhood to feel like I was worthy of just taking up space in the world. And so I think that's a story that has resonated with a lot of people too. We absorb so many messages in our culture about our worth as women, as Black women, as brown, brown skin darker hued Black women. I mean, there's just so many layers to it. And so you almost try to create this wall of protection around yourself through your results and your achievement. It finally caught up with me and I had to pull back those layers.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:11:54] Yeah. I mean, I relate to that and I think so many people listening will relate to that, like connecting your worth to productivity. And what just sort of came to me as you were talking is how for Black people specifically, and specifically Black people whose ancestors were enslaved, how there's like a thread of that in slavery, right? Like an enslaved person was worth more if they were more productive and they could work more and produce more. Like those were the metrics upon which-
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:12:34] Right.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:12:35] Our ancestors were measured and valued, right? And then obviously we're also in a society that says productivity and busyness, but I hadn't totally thought before about the connection and the legacy of slavery that gets brought into hustle and grind culture and how it shows up, particularly in Black communities and who's valuable. And so I think just even speaks even more to dismantling that and detaching our worth and the value we can contribute from how much we can work, how hard we can work, how much we can produce. And that doesn't mean that you don't do work, right? It doesn't mean that you don't engage in work and doing it at the expense of our bodies, at the expense of our health without resting, right? We know that that's not sustainable.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:13:32] Right. Right. I mean, we are up against a legacy that's been passed down. And I think you hear about epigenetics and the different things that are literally physically passed through the mother's umbilical cord. And the experiences, the memory, the hormones, all those things, it goes somewhere, right? It doesn't just get thrown out. Because we say, okay, we don't believe that anymore. It's still in us. And I think we're at a time where we're searching for and trying to create new models for ourselves and for our children about what it means to be a Black person in this country who is not so defined by their work. And by you know, we talk about slavery and I think as I mentioned in the Washington Post article that I wrote that was just talking about Black women and exhaustion in a broader sense.
Like, yes, Black people in America, descendants of slaves, we do have this very cruel legacy of slavery. But even though the broader culture, I mean capitalism itself, I mean, and slavery was a very cruel instrument of capitalism, but capitalism itself is judging us all based on what we produce. And so even our white brothers and sisters are dealing with this same idea, the same sense of we have to work, we have to overwork so that we are literally producing to create more value for the companies we work for and their shareholders. And this system that, like, when you really stop to think about it's like, what am I building or investing into? What am I putting my energy, my days, my time, my life, my life force into, what is the return? What am I contributing to? And I think when you take time to look at that, you can assess how you're using your energy and how you're using your time and start to think about what could be different and how you can move differently, and even what you might need or not need that you thought you did. It's like, oh, I'm working so hard for the next….. Are we really, do they really need all that? Like, you know what I mean?
Dr. Adia Gooden[00:16:05] Well.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:16:06] Like, these stories we tell ourselves, it's like I have to do that, or I didn't come from money, so I have to.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:16:13] Yeah.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:16:14] Just rethink it all.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:16:16] Right. And I think sort of recognize the legacy of trauma and poverty and all those things that can get us into a mode of like, I have to do it. But I remember having a conversation with my good friend, and it was sort of after I had basically decided to leave my last job. So I knew I was on the way out and she was like, "You need to do B work", like getting a grade of B level work. And I was just like, mind blown, like, what? like that's possible. I could not go for the A I could literally just say B work is good enough. It's still passing, right? It's still, but for someone who like-
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:16:54] [indiscernible 00:16:54]
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:16:55]Exactly. But someone who's grew up as like, always do the best, do the most, do the, it was such a shift to be like, yeah, I don't have to go for an A, I actually do not have to. And I could choose, because at that time it was like I was transitioning out of my main job and I was starting my business to get ready. And it's like I could choose where I put my energy, where I'm investing my time, and I can be okay getting a B, right? So if my supervisor or whoever says, Adia, that wasn't that great, or here's room for improvement. I can be okay with that because I'm choosing how I want to spend my time and energy. And that really was a revelation. And I feel like that's what you're talking about. It's, we can get so much into the habit and the mode of, I have to, and I don't have a choice and I've got to keep working and overworking. And the reality is that we do have more choice than we're often aware of. And so it requires us to slow down and pause and ask these questions, which can be scary questions that you're posing, which is, why am I doing this? Do I want to do it? Do I have to do it, right? What could change? And that really opens up that agency and choice that we have.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:18:03] I absolutely agree. And I think that even that line of questioning is what prompted me to explore in the LA Times article that you mentioned. Because after I started embracing the idea that I needed to really examine this notion of working twice as hard, and my work ethic is my identity, and I'm known for the results I can deliver and how productive I can be. When I started to unpack that and shift how I even talked to myself, like my self talk, how I took care of myself, how I prioritize myself, how I allow myself the margin to do what makes me happy, the simple things, the free things like enjoy my cup of coffee in the morning, write in my journal, take a delicious walk through the forest, sit outside and feel the sun on my face.
Like I don't have to be rushing and filling every moment with productivity to feel accomplished at the end of the day. When I started examining that and changing my approach to just like how I treated myself, it forced me to look at how I was treating my kids and the messages that I was passing down to them. It literally made me rethink my entire approach to parenting. Because up to that point, I had truly believed that your work ethic, what you produce, what you can do, what you can show you've done, so that people understand your value in this world and the opportunities are available to you, you have to do this in order to get opportunities. And it was the pandemic. So the kids are at home and they watched me burnout and because they were at home doing virtual school. It was really powerful to have them mirror back to me my own insanity. Like I had the baby, and then I'm literally like I didn't take maternity leave. It was crazy. And they were just like, I remember we call my daughter, Bean. My son said, he was like, "Mommy why do you have to just keep working? I think you should just take a break right now and be with Bean. Bean needs you.”
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:20:39] Oh my gosh. I'm sure your heart was like…
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:20:46] You're right. You know, and my kids are great for that. Like, they'll check me and tell me the truth. But I lost sight of what was most important. What is the thing that only I can do in this world? I'm the only person who can mother this child and build the bond of her birth mother. Like, what am I doing? Like, all this other stuff will be here. And so it made me think about just the messages that I was passing down to the kids, and we've talked about it. We've talked about prioritizing yourself and rest. And I even started to say, listen, okay, I love As, As are great. But if getting a B means you get a good night of sleep and you feel better in your body and you've got time to do some of the things that you like to do in addition to school, I'm okay with that. And I think that was revolutionary for me to say.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:21:47] I mean, that's huge. And I think what comes up for me is I'm not there. I have a 12-month-old, so we're not school age yet, and we'll see kind of how it plays out. But what comes up for me is like the need to manage my anxiety that if my daughter doesn't get the best grades, that she'll be okay, right? Because we have been told that if you get the best grades, you get into the best schools and you're going to get the best jobs. And that's safety and security. And I think we know to a certain extent that that's not true. To some extent it can be true, right? But then we also know the unhelpful consequences of overworking kids burning themselves out. And when we see the stories in the very extreme of these kids at super competitive high schools dying by suicide because there is so much pressure to get into the right school and they haven't done it, right?
And so I think we know that, and the desire for your kid to have every opportunity and to have every chance and to know, like having a Black child and them maybe not having all A's or the best grades means, like some opportunities may not be. Like, I just imagine there's a lot of like self-soothing and anxiety management that comes with giving your children the space or giving our children the space to be kids and to get it right sometimes and get the grades sometimes and other times need to learn how to prioritize themselves, right? And just navigating that uncertainty and that kind of wide open field in that way.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:23:28] And I think Yes, yes. All the things. And it's not a thing you just up and say, I have changed my philosophy and now things are this way. It's a practice because I have spent my entire life believing that hard work was the key to everything. And in some contexts it is. But when you talk about us wanting to give our kids every advantage and position them so that they are able to get the most and get the best jobs and have the best life, and that's what I'm talking about this whole narrative that we start to tell ourselves about, like, well, I'm working so hard so I can give this to you, and you have to work so hard so you can have that. And it's like, really exam, what does that mean? What is a great life? What is the best job? Like, what am I pushing you towards? What am I assuming that you want? What am I assuming that will be the pathway to your success? Like the way I earn money was not even available when I was, you know what I mean? When I was in middle school, like selling coaching and strategy on the internet. Like, so who's to say, right? Like who's to say.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:24:55] That's there is some-
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:24:55] What the world will be and how they'll be able to fulfill their dreams. And even outside of that, just this notion that more, more, more, more money, more this more that is the key to happiness. When I just told you, having my cup of coffee, writing in my journal, sitting outside with the sun on my face. That's happiness to me. And so even just trying to reprogram myself around what I am saying is required for my children to be happy, right? And me even encouraging, like, what am I encouraging? I'm over-indexing on achievement so that you can make money. But that's literally like just one part of life. And my kids are smart, they're very talented, they're creative, they're going to be able to make money, right? They're not idiots and they have skills, they have gifts. They'll be able to make money. So maybe I should be encouraging this is how you take care of yourself. This is how you take care of your relationships. This is how you build your networks. Those are the things that are going to contribute to your overall fulfillment.
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:26:24] Are you a high achieving professional BIPOC woman who has achieved success through hard work and hustle? You've shown up, busted barriers and challenged low expectations, and now you're tired. You're ready for a space where you will be encouraged, supported, and where your soul will be nourished? I created the Unconditionally Worthy Group Coaching Program for you. This program offers the space you are looking for. In this curated group of just 10 BIPOC women. I will coach and guide you to embrace your unconditional self-worth. This curriculum-based group coaching program is grounded in my 15 years of experience as a clinical psychologist, my research and expertise from writing and publishing a book on Black women's mental health, and my own journey of overcoming perfectionism, overworking, and people pleasing to embrace and live from the truth that I am unconditionally worthy. Here's what one of my former group coaching members, Tony, had to say about the program.
TONY [00:27:23] To me, it's the best investment one can make in themselves. So do it. Don't let finances hamper you. Because we spend money anyway. It's the best investment in yourself.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:27:34] Apply now before spots fill up. The next cohort starts the week of September 25th, 2023. I will personally review your application and invite you to join me for a call to discuss whether this program is right for you.
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I love that. I love that. It is a reprogramming, as you're saying, and it is a really thinking deeply about what are our values? What is it actually that we want for our kids versus just passing down or adopting societal narratives about what needs to happen. And I also think about helping them to sort of what you're describing, like, be good humans, right? Like, have healthy relationships, be able to take care of themselves, be able to show up and follow through on commitments, right? That's an important thing to do as a human right. But that it's not like all work at the expense of, right? Like, just to get into the best school, the best, whatever, the best, you know? And it's like, well, will that make them happy? Is it the best fit, right?
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:28:47] Right.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:28:48] Is it the right fit? Does it nurture them? Does it help them to be creative in the way they want to be creative? So I love all of these questions that you're asking, which require us to really look at what are we doing and also what are we modeling, right? Because I think often as parents, it can be like, okay, I've had questions of like, well, how do I help my child know that they're worthy? And of course, there are things that you can do, say, not say, et cetera. And the way we model owning our worthiness, whether things are going well or not going well in our own lives, right? The way we claim the truth of who we are, like that modeling is one of the most powerful things that we can offer to our children.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:29:32] Absolutely. I absolutely wholeheartedly believe that.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:29:38] Yeah. Well, I'd love to shift to talk about how this also relates to the work that you do with women and people who are packaging. You talk about packaging their genius and women of color packaging their genius. And I'm curious about kind of the intersections between helping women to own their gifts, own their strengths, own their insights, and also pulling away from this overworking overproduction, maybe even trying to be like everyone else kind of culture. And so I'd love for you to kind of talk about what that looks like.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:30:19] Well, it's interesting. So I guess technically you would call me like a personal branding or visibility coach. And I have a whole framework of like how I guide people to find the essence of their brand, which essentially is just helping you reconnect with who you've always been and helping you strengthen the muscle of self-discovery and self communion. I do this regularly and have been doing it since I was 10 years old or so, like I've just always been a thinker or a writer, and I just like question and record my day and think about this and what about that. But my process is really meant to help each of my clients get back in touch with the thing that energizes them and that comes so effortlessly and easily to them and that they love to do.
And so I think when you talk about intersections, when you can really hone in on the thing that just brings you joy, but it's almost like a, it's a natural innate thing that you've always been doing. It actually requires less work and delivers and creates better results. And so I'm all about helping people find that intersection of like my skills, my passion, my energy, and also this thing that I've probably been dismissing taking for granted downplaying because it is so easy for me. It's so just naturally who I'm, so I'm not giving it the credit it deserves. I'm not talking about it as powerfully as I should. I'm not owning the value of it and claiming the power of this thing that I do. And so I help them to see the thing that's always been there, reconnect with it, communicate it powerfully so that they can start showing up doing the thing they were put on earth to do. And therefore they don't have to work so hard to be worthy.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:40] Yeah. I love that so much. And I think that often when we are sharing those gifts that we are designed to share, it is more about being, right? Than the doing and the working and the grinding, right? It is like that person who shows up and has that magnetic energy or like you're saying, like this curiosity, this asking questions, this reflection that inspires other people to reflect and think. And so I do think that's so powerful to help people recognize that as sort of this gift and this strength, this genius. And I was also sort of connecting this back to our conversation about productivity and our culture. And it made me wonder if part of the reason so many of us have trouble owning our genius are the things that come naturally is because they aren't in that framework of working hard, right? And we are in a culture that values hard work and grinding, and that's what you are proud of.
And so the things that come with ease, with joy, with fun, with creativity that just flow, we're like, well, that doesn't, that's nothing, right? Because it's a different framework and it often isn't a tangible product that comes through. So I wonder if you've thought at all about that, the fact that we often do have challenges owning that part of us that comes through naturally. And whether that is in part because we're so used to this framework of it's valuable if it takes hard work and it involves a grind, and that's what makes something of value or worthy.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:34:20] Absolutely. And I've even had cases in my own life where I was developing something or creating something and got great at it or had so much practice with it that it was so easy that I started to be like, is this even valuable to the world? Because it's just, it's too easy. And then I start breaking things so I can make it hard again. And then I'm like, wait, what am I doing? But I think it kind of goes back to what we affirm and what we do not affirm in our children and young people.
We think about education, there's just such a missed opportunity when we look at children, because in childhood, that's when we are closest to the purpose of our lives. I wrote in this poem once, like, young people just aren't cunning enough to forge, right? Like you cannot fake who you're and what you like. You ever ask a child a question, do you like my outfit? Does this dress make me look fat? They'll tell you the truth. And I think that that honesty is something that worth to harness with children to help them remember who they are because as they get older and by design, I think that our society forces them to forget. And so I think it goes back to that, it goes back to we don't really affirm our young people for the things that come easily to them.
We don't channel the things that are disruptive to us or inconvenient to us into things that talkativeness, right? That can be channeled. Physical activity, hyperactivity that can be channeled. So much is posed as a disruption. And that I think goes back to just like our modernist society and the five day work week modeled after factories. And like, we're just trying to create these uniform people who follow rules and orders, but at the end of the day, that does not bode well for people seeing their individuality, it's completely counter to our modern work society.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:36:52] Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, where's the space for that play and what children are drawn to stay in this fun and light place? Because I even think about as kids go into activities, it's like, becomes very serious and very competitive. And not that there's a problem with sports and competition, because that can create discipline and all of the, right? Like skill and all of these things, but it feels like things get serious younger and younger, right? And it's like, okay, so you play basketball, you're going to make it to the NBA, the WNBA, right? Like, it just becomes intense. And it's like what maybe once was like, oh, this is fun and shooting hoops, and like all this stuff becomes serious and already at 10 you're preparing for what you're going to do at 20. And it's like, where is the room for the lightness, the freedom, and the play? And are there parts of that even as we sort of need to structure something so that we can leave room for that lightness and that creativity and that play and that fun, so it's not lost in the process?
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:38:03] Yeah. I think you touched on it perfectly when you mentioned like, okay, I'm playing basketball and I love it. Well, wait, you're going to get on this team and you're going do this. You can eventually get to the NBA. I think it's that injection of the capitalism that takes, you know what I mean? Like, instead of just allowing it to be something I pursue because I enjoy it and I don't know where it's going to go. I don't know, but I enjoy it so I'm going to keep doing it. It's like we force ourselves to see how will this fit into capitalism. And I think for a lot of people, self included, if we don't see a clear pathway to capitalism, we don't pursue the things that we want to pursue. I remember when I was in high school, I was a poet. I wrote all these poems and everybody in my school was like, oh my God, one day we're going to read your poems. We're going to go get your books and buy them from Davis-Kidd Booksellers. That was the big bookstore in Nashville.
And I remember talking to my dad about college, and I said, yeah, I'm going to major in English. And he was just like, why? Like, you're going to be the most well-spoken person working at McDonald's. He said that. And I was like, okay, that's mean. But that notion of you're creative, you're a writer. You want to pursue literature and you're not necessarily sure where it all is going to lead, but this is what you're passionate about. It planted the seed in me that like, you cannot earn a good living and make a good life for yourself through your creative talents. And it's taken me my entire life to dismantle that. And I'm still dismantling it, but it's simply not true. And I can even think of decisions that I made and kind of when the path diverged in the past.
And I said, okay, I can't follow that path because there's not enough money there, right? But I remember, Ta-Nehisi Coates said it so beautifully when he was talking about writers and like the writers that make it, and he said that the game of writing, like the whole goal of it is just to stay in the game. He's like, because people every year people are going to just drop out. And so like, if you get to 40 and you're still writing, you win because no one else is there. It's like if you've been writing every day, every week, every month, every year, this is what you do and you've been doing this for 20 years, you win. Because there's a pool of like three people. There's like, nobody left. And so it's just, I don't know.
I think of these things and I don't regret anything. I love my work. And as you can see, like, I mean, we're connecting because I'm following the call of sharing my voice in a different way like through the essay, the op-eds and the creative stuff, right? That brought us to this table, right? And so that's part of my reframe, my seeing myself, right? Like giving myself permission to explore something that it doesn't have to pay the kids' tuition. It doesn't have to pay the mortgage. And just because it doesn't doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to exist. And if it makes me happy, is that not enough payment, like allowing myself to carve out time to pursue something that's meaningful to me.
And I mean, to be honest with you, even though I say okay, like the writing doesn't really pay when you publish something, you do get a small fee, but it's nothing for my lifestyle. I cannot support my household on that. But other opportunities, doors that have been opened, speaking engagements, paid speaking, like all sorts of things come out of that. And so I think it's worth allowing yourself the permission to explore and not attaching the responsibility of capitalism to something that is a calling, right? A calling of your heart.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:42:46] Right. The pressures of it.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:42:47] Give yourself permission to see where it goes. Just try it. You never know.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:42:51] I love that. I love that. You're making me think. So I was planning to sort of ask you, and I still want to ask you about sort of combating erasure of Black leaders. But as you were talking, it brought me to this question of self erasure. And one of the things you said is, I see myself and can I see myself? And it feels like there is erasure of Black and brown and BIPOC leaders certainly in the world. And I think what we're talking about is being socialized into self erasure, right? And not seeing our needs, our wants, our desires. So I'd love for you to maybe start this question from the inside out, right? Like, how do we maybe erase ourselves that keeps us disconnected from our gifts and our genius? And then how does that relate to the problems of us being erased in the world?
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:43:54] So many things. That's a yummy question. I think, again, going back to what we affirm in children and what we don't affirm and who were some of those influential voices of childhood who plant messages unknowingly that haunt us for decades. It's really, and that's another thing I'm obsessed with, like watching people who have kind of known and followed and harnessed their magic from childhood, what was different about them. And a lot of times you'll find that they had very supportive parental figures. Like you look at Beyonce, for example, she's mentioned in interviews that she wouldn't be able to do what she does if her mother had not seen, invested time, resources, costumes, hair, touring like that requires being seen, being validated, being taken seriously, being encouraged, and also being parented and mothered in all the other ways that's expected. So not to blame everything on our parents, but I do believe that it is more difficult to erase yourself when your truest self, like your most honest, authentic, vulnerable, true self.
When that is affirmed by the people in your first home environment, it's hard for you to erase yourself. But I also think that society, in addition to the way that we've all been kind of groomed to overachieve and work twice as hard to have as much that message. Another troubling and interesting message that I think we see a lot in communities of color, families of color and women, is this idea of humility, modesty. Don't take up too much space. Don't talk about yourself. Don't be self-promotional. That's obnoxious. And so that's one of the messages that I am always fighting against in my work. Because what ends up happening when you over index on the humility and the modesty, people don't know what you do. They don't know what you're capable of. They don't know what you're responsible for and what you should be taking the credit for.
They don't know what results that you have actually produced. So they can't promote you. They can't bring more opportunities to you. And so you take yourself out of the running for things when you fail to speak up and let folks know who you are. And then going back to that idea about like how powerfully are we communicating? Are we owning everything and then saying that, or are we just owning a little piece of it? And just saying that, because if we only own a little piece, we'll only get a little bit. But we have to really step into all of it if we want to attract opportunity. So all of that to say I think the self erasure, the culture of humility, which I also believe is by design. I believe it's by design and curious that so many women.
And so many people of color have this idea of like, oh, we've got to be quiet, we've got to be humble. We can't shine too much. Now, I do know historically for Black people in America visibility is dangerous and even showing, like I was talking to a friend of mine who's also a psychologist, like showing how good you are would make you a target, right? If you're a target, if you're a slave who's too good, somebody might try to steal you, right? Or hurt you because maybe you are taking resources or creating competition for them. So we have like a very, very tangled relationship with modesty and humility. But in this day and age for us to get our just due, I believe we do have to speak up. And not especially women and people of color, people are already clamoring to erase us and to not put us forth. And I think we do ourselves a disservice when we erase ourselves before they even get a chance to potentially do that.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:48:26] Yeah.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:48:27] Yeah. I don't know if I-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:48:28] No, you did. It's such a rich answer. It's such a rich answer.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:48:34] I get a little heated.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:48:35] I love it. That is welcome here.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:48:39] On Black erasure I think that's really the genesis of the professional work that I do, when you watch a film like Hidden Figures like that just, oh, that heats me up. To see people and to know, like you probably have people in your family, in your history. I know I do. Of people who had they been born in a different time. Wow. What could they have been. Just what they knew and how talented, naturally talented, resilient, creative, resourceful, like my own father studied engineering in the sixties and ended up doing computer engineering.
When he graduated college, computers weren't even invented like, you know what I mean? Just crazy smart folks. And it bothers me, but I also feel we miss out on so much talent. Because there's this whole group of people who is hidden and who has not felt comfortable or celebrated or willing to step forward. And the industries that they're working in haven't celebrated them. So just think though, if like all the genius that we've had access to had the opportunity to shine and be seen, I just, who knows? There's like inventions. There's all sorts of stuff and I just feel like we're missing out on.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:50:16] I so agree. My utopian fantasy since I was a kid, really has always been this world where everyone is empowered to share their gifts, to shine, is in roles and positions and doing the things that they want to do. And that is what makes the world work well and in harmony. And I think we keep calling out capitalism and I think rightfully so, but the problem is when we're in the framework of a zero sum, I win-
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:50:50] Exactly.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:50:50] You lose, you win. I lose. Then there isn't this imagination of what's possible if all of the kids had access to incredible education and then could share their genius in whatever way that manifested, right?
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:51:07] Exactly.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:51:08] And how beautiful and amazing the world could be if everyone was given that opportunity and that there is actually enough money, enough opportunity, enough time, right? Like there is enough to create that world if we get out of this framework of only some will have and others will not.
And if others have, I won't, right? That's sort of this framework that we are operating in and it limits us. And I think the other thought I had, and it's connected to this, is just how it can feel really easy to have limited imagination and possibilities, right? Like when you were talking about well just see, like, see where a creative impulse might take you or see if you follow. I think because we are in this frame of capitalism and it has to make money or it has to do this, we get very narrow in terms of possibility. And the reality is we don't know all of the possibilities. And so it's sort of this call to like, what if we could imagine a broader possibilities that's beyond what we could imagine for this creative pursuit? And maybe it won't go anywhere, and that's okay.
And maybe it'll go beyond where we could even imagine. And can we allow that to be possible? Both in terms of ourselves in community, like what is possible if no one is erased and everyone is seen and everyone is acknowledged, what is possible if we don't erase ourselves and we show up, we share our gifts of the world and we rest and we take care of ourselves. Like what? And we don't have to know the answer. We could just ask that question of like, what could be possible for my life, for the world, for my family, for community if we operated in a different framework that's nourishing and nurturing to all of us.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:52:51] Yeah. And as you were talking, you just made me think about the idea of self erasure. Again, I think one of the ways that so many of us erase ourselves is just by ignoring our intuition. When you were talking about the possibility and the abundance and, you never know what will happen. One of the things that I have started experimenting with recently, because I think a part of my work is helping people recognize when their intuition is speaking to them and giving them clues and calling them to explore and then giving them permission or encouraging them to give themselves permission to explore whatever is coming up. And I even know this with myself. I'll get an idea, like a quick idea. Like, oh, you should reach out to such and such and tell her y'all should have coffee or do a Zoom.
Or you should look up some idea. You get these random little bits of inspiration and guidance and they kind of just float away because you're like nevermind. Or, oh, that person doesn't want to hear from me, or, oh, such and just too busy, or, oh, they probably already are booked or what have you. And so I've started this practice with like writing down when I get these little nudges and just forcing myself to shoot the note off, send the email, send the text, Google whatever in the moment or by the end of the day to just see what is, what am I being guided to? What is available, what could potentially happen. Like the worst thing that could happen is I hear nothing back, right? So it's like-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:54:50] Yes.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:54:51] What is there to lose in that? And I can tell you it's interesting that there are so many instances when you hear from yourself, but I'm finding that the more I act, the faster I get with just like being open and moving in the direction of like my true self. I don't want to be like, oh, these are the things that it has yielded already, but it has yielded some cool things.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:55:24] That's awesome.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:55:25] Just people who I was like, oh, I remember meeting you years ago and now I see you're over here. Oh my God, I would like to write for the New York Times.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:55:36] That's amazing.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:55:38] You know, do you want to talk about my work and people saying we should definitely connect. Like what? And that was literally a little nudge that I got like, oh, remember her? You should like send it out.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:55:54] I mean, I love it. I mean, I think even us meeting, it was the middle of a session and I don't even totally know why I got up and walked out of the session, but it was the middle of the session something nudged me to be like, either I was done with the session or like whatever. But I was like, I got up and walked out in the middle of the session, so it was like, there weren't that many people in the lobby and I was wearing a hot pink suit and so I think you came over to be like, oh, I really like your suit. And then we like, and we're like, oh we introduced. [crosstalk 00:56:26] And so it's like.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:56:29] Wait a minute. I know that name.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:56:30] These little things of like wear the hot pink suit.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:56:34] I thought about that. I was like, I like her suit. Should I tell her I like her suit? And I was sitting there with my friend and my friend was on the phone and I was like, I'm going to tell this woman I like her suit. Why not?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:56:45] I see, I love it. I had another thing like that happen. This woman, Black woman had these funky glasses. We were out at dinner, I was pregnant and I was like, I love your glasses. Like on our way out. And we chatted for like two minutes. Me and my husband and her and her who she was with. We had the baby, not in a way that was planned. She was the neonatologist that examined our daughter, right? Like right after she was born. And she recognized me because of my glasses that she could see like beyond the [indiscernible 00:57:16] because I had a C-section, but she was like, I knew it was you. And so it's like such a little, like I had seen her glasses across the room and I was like, some great glasses. Right? And so these little things, and it's like, could I imagine that possibility that she was a neonatologist that would examine my daughter like when she was born.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:57:36] Not just a neonatologist, but your-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:57:38] Right. You know.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:57:39] Your future neonatologist.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:57:41] And I think it's such a beautiful note to remember and to end on because what it requires is slowing down and listening to ourselves and listening to what's larger and listening to our beings more than doing. Because when we are in that hustle and grind and work and work and we are exhausting ourselves, it is very hard to feel those nudges and listen to them and honor them. That's usually when we like get sick or something happens. And so I hope that everyone listening is inspired to imagine more possibilities for yourself, for your children, for your life, for how you can contribute to the world. And that it's a reminder that slowing down and listening is one pathway to get there.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:58:30] Absolutely.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:58:31] This has been such a wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed-
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:58:37] So rich.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:58:38] Yes, rich. Like I enjoy your insights and your questions and I love conversations like this where we're bouncing off of each other. And so thank you so much. For those people who want to connect with you, want to learn more about what you do, where can they find you?
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:58:54] They can find me online. My website is amandamillerlittlejohn.com. I know that's long , but that's what it is. amandamillerlittlejohn.com. And I'm on LinkedIn as well as Instagram. So if you just search Amanda Miller Littlejohn, I should pop up and I would love to connect with any of you. Just let me know that you found me via this amazing podcast.
Dr. Adia Gooden[00:59:24] Awesome. And we will link all of those things in the show notes as well, so it's easy to get to. So thank you so much, Amanda. I really appreciate you sharing your time.
Amanda Miller Littlejohn [00:59:33] Thank you. Absolutely. This was so much fun.
[cheerful music starts]
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:59:38] Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode. You can also follow me on social media at Dr. Adia Gooden. If you loved the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
Cali by Wataboi https://soundcloud.com/wataboi
Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0
Music promoted by FDL Music https://youtu.be/ZdQI7WQWi_g
Do you ignore your talents and interests in the pursuit of the American Dream? Do you make yourself small to fit in or fly under the radar? Do you over-prioritize hard work until there’s no time for self-expression, creativity, or fun? You might be falling victim to self-erasure…
In this episode of Unconditionally Worthy, I welcome Amanda Miller Littlejohn, a Brand Strategist, Executive Coach, Writer, and Founder of Package Your Genius Academy, an organization helping brilliant minds of color get their life-changing ideas into the world. Amanda is passionate about helping leaders of color make themselves visible to combat erasure and that’s exactly what we’re talking about today.
In this discussion, Amanda and I talk about how to reverse self-erasure, get out of the hustle and grind culture, and imagine bigger possibilities for your life and your family. You’ll walk away with a strong understanding of what self-erasure is, where it comes from, and 5 tips that will help you stop erasing yourself and start seeing yourself. Amanda also sheds light on her self-worth journey which was fueled by having a baby during the pandemic, being a high achiever, burning out, and rethinking her “hard worker” identity.
Are you erasing yourself? How does self-erasure keep us disconnected from our strengths?
Self-erasure can be described as a disproportionate external focus and neglect of our own authentic self-expression that leads to a disconnection with the true self. And like many aspects of life, self-erasure starts in childhood.
Often we find that the people who have harnessed and pursued their strengths and talents from childhood also had very supportive parental figures. To grow into someone that pursues their passions requires being seen, taken seriously, validated, and encouraged by their loved ones. When you’ve grown up in that environment, it’s hard for you to erase yourself.
Other things that can lead to self-erasure, especially in (BIPOC) women, is the pressure of humility and modesty or the avoidance of self-promotion. When you over-prioritize humility and modesty and avoid putting yourself out there, a lot of people don’t know what you do, what you’re responsible for, what results you’ve produced, and what you’re capable of. “You take yourself out of the running for things when you fail to speak up and let folks know who you are,” Amanda says. This creates a disconnection between you and your strengths, gifts, and talents.
Have you been erasing yourself all this time?
“You don’t have to work so hard to be worthy.”
Has anyone ever told you, “you’re a natural” or “it’s like you were born to do this”? Chances are they’re not just saying that. You were born to do something, or several things, but we all have to discover what that is and how to make it a part of our lives.
“When you can really hone in on the things that bring you joy, but it’s almost like a natural, innate thing that you’ve always been doing, it actually requires less work and delivers and creates better results,” Amanda says.
Amanda has made it her mission to help women find that intersection of skills, passion, and energy along with the part of themselves that they’re not owning, claiming, and putting out into the world
Is there a part of yourself waiting to be shown to the world?
When you break out of the culture that values hard work (and attaches that to worthiness), you can be free to hone the skills, talents, and passions that come naturally to you. When you begin sharing those gifts that you were born to share, life becomes less about the hustle and grind and more about doing what energizes you. When you’re doing that, you can connect more easily to your unconditional worthiness. When you feel strongly connected to your self-worth, you don’t have to work so hard to feel worthy.
It’s a beautiful cycle that gives you the freedom to be you. This is how you stop erasing yourself and start seeing yourself.
This is also why we need to affirm young kids for the skills, talents, strengths, and interests that come easily to them. We’ve gotten too comfortable with not channeling the things that are disruptive to us (talking a lot, hyperactivity) into things that help our kids be who they are. We can’t keep molding children into uniform people who follow rules and orders because it erases individuality, exploration, and self-actualization.
Many of us have been conditioned to believe that we can’t make a living from our creative talents or interests that are out of the norm. “For a lot of people, self included, if we don’t see a clear pathway to capitalism, we don’t pursue the things that we want to pursue,” Amanda says. “It doesn’t have to pay the kids’ tuition, it doesn’t have to pay the mortgage, and just because it doesn’t, doesn’t mean it doesn’t deserve to exist. And if it makes me happy, isn’t that enough payment?”
If capitalism didn’t exist or wasn’t as powerful, what would you pursue?
Whether you love to write, make music, bake, paint, make candles, or rescue animals, give yourself the permission to explore that without the pressure of making it into a money-making machine. See how it goes!
How to Stop Erasing Yourself & Start Seeing Yourself:
Give yourself permission to think about bigger possibilities for your life, your family, your community, and the world. The broader your vision, the richer your life can become.
Don’t ignore your intuition. Recognize when your intuition is giving you ideas or inspiration of where to go or what to do next. What are you being guided to? The more you act, the faster you’ll move towards your true self.
Practice communicating with strength and confidence. Strengthening your voice will help you speak up when you need to, be seen and heard, and attract new opportunities into your life.
Leave room in your life for light-hearted creativity and fun. Is there an activity or project you want to try or pick back up again? Do it and see where it takes you!
Literally, practice seeing yourself by eye gazing with yourself for 1 minute each day. Look at yourself in the mirror, look into your beautiful eyes, and notice yourself. Once you get comfortable eye gazing, start adding in affirmations, a little pep talk, or even just a smile. See and be seen, ladies.
Resources Mentioned:
Ready to start seeing and healing yourself? The next cohort of the Unconditionally Group Coaching Program started on September 25th, 2023, but you can still join! Apply now to secure your spot: www.unconditionallyworthy.com/program
About Amanda Miller Littlejohn (she/her):
With a career spanning 15 years across journalism, public relations, and coaching Amanda Miller Littlejohn has been a pioneering voice on personal branding - teaching her students and clients across the globe to package their genius ideas, strategies, and services so they can earn a living from their most impactful work.
As the founder of Package Your Genius Academy, she works as an executive coach and executive storyteller helping brilliant minds of color get their life-changing ideas into the world. Amanda is about helping leaders of color make themselves visible to combat erasure.
A lifelong writer, Amanda is a contributing columnist capturing the zeitgeist through her timely essays on work, rest, and Black women. Her writing has been published in the Washington Post, Huffington Post, and the Los Angeles Times.
To connect further with Amanda Miller Littlejohn:
Visit her website: https://amandamillerlittlejohn.com
Package Your Genius Academy: http://www.packageyourgeniusacademy.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/PACKAGEYOURGENIUS
Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amillerlittlejohn
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana.
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