Owning The Power of Your Voice with Samara Bay
— EPISODE 91 —
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Samara Bay [00:00:00] Let's work backwards, if the world we want to live in has more leaders who sound like the life they've actually lived and who sound emotionally available, what can we do to listen better to those up and coming voices now? And what can we do to show up as that type of leader every chance we get?
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:00:22] Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life. And how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I just had an amazing, amazing conversation with Samara Bay. She is speech coach for celebrities, actresses, congresspeople, politicians, and she is incredible. And wrote a book called Permission to Speak. We have this incredible conversation about how owning our voice and tapping into the strength and power of our voices connected to our self-worth. It's a really insightful, free flowing conversation that you are going to want to listen into. I know that when you hear it, it's going to give you a new sense of awareness of your voice, of how you use it, and you're even going to get some tips along the way about how to support yourself in using your voice powerfully. I love this conversation and I sincerely hope that you enjoy it too. Let's get into the show.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I'm really excited to welcome Samara Bay onto the podcast. We met in Puerto Rico at a conference, well, really, we met at dinner or in the streets of old San Juan, heading to-
Samara Bay [00:02:18] Accurate.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:02:19] Heading to a bar club that we walked into, and then were like Mmmh walked out of. We were in a big group of women entrepreneurs and I was somewhat familiar with Samara's work about kind of how do we own our voice and speak up powerfully? And so I asked her then that night, on the streets of Old San Juan, will you be on my podcast? And she graciously said yes and has followed through, which I am incredibly honored by. So she is the author of Penguin Random House bestseller, Permission to Speak, a revolution in how to think about your voice and everyone else's out now and available in 15 Plus Countries. I'm listening to it on audio book. She reads the audio book. So that is a wonderful experience that I would highly recommend. She's a Los Angeles based speech coach whose clients range from candidates for US Congress to C-suite executives, Changemaking entrepreneurs, thought leaders, Hollywood celebrities and high school girls. I'm so excited to welcome you to the podcast.
Samara Bay [00:03:26] Thank you. I'm very pleased to speak with you. Off the streets of San Juan.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:03:32] Off the streets of San Juan.
Samara Bay [00:03:33] And without the Chomchom in the background.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:03:36] Right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I'd love to start this conversation where I start all of the conversations that I have with guests, which is by asking you to share a bit about your own self-worth journey.
Samara Bay [00:03:51] I love this question because I feel like it super overlaps with the question that has started to come up a bit on my book tour and that I now claim as a sort of icebreaker, which is who gave you permission to speak? Honoring that of course, inside of the concept of Permission to Speak, we all know like, we would like to be able to say, I give myself permission to speak, but that the reality is that often we're exposed to what it feels to be taken seriously if we're lucky by someone else at some point. And then we sort of have to take that energy and run with it. And I think there's something there for your question as well, right? I grew up with parents that decided on principle to take me seriously.
Not all parents do that, right? And I mean, I sometimes don't think I honor them enough in public. So I guess I'll take this moment to say that my dad is a scientist and my mom is an artist, a philosopher, a thinker, a big person thinker. And they ended up with this daughter who quite honestly was not going to go into science. I decided when I was less than 10 to be an actress, and they were like, "Then we are patrons of the arts". Not that I made the patrons of the arts, but then that identity came out in them and they have so supported me. And I see a direct line to that and the way that I'm supportive of my clients. Which is not to say obviously that yay, life was easy. I mean, trying to make it as an actress, you find out just how many other people do not take you seriously. Trying to make it in any industry as somebody who comes across as warm and smiley and friendly and girly.
You also find out what assumptions people want to jump to. And this ties into really my own story around voice too. Because I lost my voice in this wild, multi-month journey in my early twenties. And only in retrospect with years of first speech pathology training, but then also kind of this deep thought about what the heck are we, do we swear here? The going on there. Only then was I able to realize that in an attempt to get "taken seriously", which really is a standing for any respect, power I had habitually started lowering my voice just a tiny, tiny bit in pitch.
We're not talking fulls of the poems, but a tiny bit. And when I went back to that speech pathologist who helped me in my twenties, she's like yeah, yeah, all young women who come to me, that's the problem. They have vocal nodules, they have something painful going on with their literal vocal cords because they picked up a habit for psychological reasons in a bid to get taken seriously that then has physical repercussions. And in my case, in many of our cases, literally makes us lose our voice. So though the irony inside of that is like Yay and Boo.
So that's all, that's all there. And then, I have to say another major, major part of my self-worth journey, if I am honoring that sometimes it doesn't come from within, but from without, is that I had this opportunity to write this book fall in my lap. I had been thinking about these ideas, but I had been thinking that they were a podcast and I hadn't really known what sort of manifestation of them should be. And I met a literary agent through a friend, and that friend literally just said, "You two should meet". I mean, it was so kind and such a sisterhood moment, and I was not looking for it. And then through the process of working with him and coming up with a proposal and pitching it, I had this wild week March 23rd, 2020 when the world had just shut down, when I got to pitch it to 14 interested publishers.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:08:00] Wow.
Samara Bay [00:08:01] Over Zoom, I was everybody's first Zoom author meeting, and they were all like I don't even think this is possible.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:08:09] It was a whole new world.
Samara Bay [00:08:10] I was like I'll show you. Exactly. Exactly. But I was lucky that my topic is public speaking. And I'm like well.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:08:15] Right.
Samara Bay [00:08:16] Let's show up with people even though we're on camera. And at the end of that week there was a 13-way bidding war, and I cannot deny that gave me a sense of self-worth. I mean, I would love us all to be kind of proofed against needing experience like that in order to make us sort of come into our own and face our genius . But the reality is that is how it happened for me. And then I'm taking every lesson from what I possibly can and trying it into offerings for my people.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:08:50] Thank you for sharing that from the experience of being affirmed and really seen by your parents to the shifts that you were trying to make to be taken seriously. And even as you were sharing that, I was thinking about yeah. I was very frequently hoarse, and I don't know this stuff better than I do, but you go to a party and I would often go to a party, get into debates, come home horse, or maybe I was just having fun and come home hoarse, but it has made me think that like oh, maybe I was doing something with my voice that was sort of leading to those things.
Samara Bay [00:09:35] And in a way we all are in a way, we all are because, who doesn't lose their voice no matter how much they scream, babies. And then we get socialized, period. End of story.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:09:49] That is a good point. And I have a baby who at times is screaming , very intensely.
Samara Bay [00:09:55] You're like I wonder when you're going to lose your voice. Oh, you're not. What an interesting social experiment.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:10:00] Right. A good point. Usually when she doesn't want to go to sleep, that's the time.
Samara Bay [00:10:02] Yeah, God.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:10:03] Yeah. That is such a good point. That's a good point.
Samara Bay [00:10:08] There's so much in the world of self-empowerment. I think of the Glennon Doyle phrase of who were you before the world told you how to be. There is a voice equivalent.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:10:19] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:10:20] What did we sound like? How much breath did we take?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:10:22] Yeah.
Samara Bay [00:10:23] Before the world told us how to sound, how much space to take up.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:10:27] Yeah. And I think, yeah, it's that it relates to our voice, it relates to how we show up, it relates to our energy, it relates to so many things. And I love that we're talking about speaking and voice today, because it's something that most of us, most people navigate and oh shoot, I was going to say something and then my mind just lost it. And then we'll see if it comes back.
Samara Bay [00:10:57] I'm so here for that. I'm so here for that. This happens to me in every single interview, and now I'm just decided, oh, it's a magical moment.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:11:06] It's a magic. What is that message? Oh-
Samara Bay [00:11:08] Yes. Yes.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:11:09] Now I remember.
Samara Bay [00:11:09] Yes.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:11:10] I was wanting to come back to you kind of sharing your experience of pitching the book and how that affirmed the worthiness of your work and how that sort of translated into you feeling it was affirming your worth. And I think one of the things that stands out to me about that experience is that you allowed yourself to take it in. Because I think that a lot of people who struggle with self-worth, especially high achieving folks, have experiences where people are affirming them and affirming what they do and affirming their gifts, but they're really struggling to own it and take it in. There's a inner narrative that says, they're just saying that that's just nice. They don't really mean it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They're just blah, right? Like all the stories that we can tell ourselves to block the affirmation from coming in.And what I love about what you shared, it's like yeah, all of us are not going to have a 13 way bidding war on a book proposal. That is incredible. And-
Samara Bay [00:12:09] Life is long.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:12:10] Many of us have other things where people are saying, I so appreciate you and thank you. And that was amazing. That was brilliant. And part of our challenge is that we don't let it in. And so the fact that you let it in and then are using it to affirm the importance of your work in the world and how it can impact and help people is really beautiful.
Samara Bay [00:12:36] It's really intentional work, for all of us, partly it's how do we receive, how do we receive anything? How do we receive a gift? How we receive a compliment is sort of how we receive anything probably.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:12:50] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:12:51] How do we expand our capacity to believe that they mean it, right? That the person who's complimenting us is doing so in good faith. And then some of is the intentionality of bringing the types of ideas that make you feel expansive to mind.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:13:08] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:13:09] I mean, this intersects with my coaching too, because I love to help people with what to do in the moments before the big moment, whatever the big moment is, right? I mean, I'm kind of generally in the public speaking realm, but that I like to define very broadly, right? Because we all know, doing a podcast like this, turning on a camera, getting on a physical stage, getting on a metaphorical stage, talking to one person where there's a power dynamic and something's on the line, let's call it all public speaking. And the question is, how do we prepare ourselves to give ourselves the most amount of permission to show up as the version of ourselves that is powerful and strong and warm and ready to receive.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:13:51] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:13:51] So this also means that I have created a practice, I guess, of collecting those moments where I do feel like someone I admire is admiring me back. And naming that, collecting those, literally writing them down or keeping them up here. If you trust, your mind to do that is how we prime ourselves for power. That's a phrase, right? Out of Amy Cuddy's book, Presence. So the psychology of priming, right? But specifically that our whole, on like an MRI, you see the difference if you prime yourself for power or if you prime yourself for powerlessness. And taking into account all of the ways in which the power structures of our own life and our culture at large are unfair. Taking all that into account, not dismissing that, not invalidating that, but wondering for ourselves with curiosity and with a little bit of mischief, what can I do? In the moment before. And the answer usually is like that one time that one person said that one thing, and it made my whole body chemistry realigned in that moment toward that, can I take a deep breath and allow my body to realign again right now, a few months later on behalf of what I'm about to go do.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:15:07] Yeah. I love that because I think so often people, we are priming ourselves for, I mean, I don't know what powerlessness may be. It's the negative narratives which often get activated to protect ourselves, right? Like everybody's going to hate it and you're going to mess up and what if you do this and you're going to say something stupid and everybody, and right? That's often where our minds run in an attempt to, first of all, I think process the normal sort of anxiety that comes up before you're going to do a speech or something in public, something where you're going to be vulnerable, right? But then our mind takes it and says, it's going to be awful. Everyone's going to hate you, you're going to mess up, and what did you do this, what have you? And really all that does is prime us to shrink and hide and talk really fast, which I have been guilty of doing, right? So get it over with. Get it over with.
Samara Bay [00:16:04] So real, so real, so real, right. And we're convincing our mind that thinking about the worst case scenario is the smart thing to do. And you know what it is, it's the fear thing to do, obviously. That was underneath your brilliant example. And more than that, it's the what our ancient cave people, ancestors wanted us to do, because eyes on you equals predator present.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:16:37] Yep.
Samara Bay [00:16:38] And then add to it the socialization of thousands of years of being a woman, being a person of color, being somebody who's queer, being somebody who shows up in any space like their other and knowing it, right? So, hi, our nervous systems know what to do, our nervous systems know how to go into protection mode. And the question is, and the question that all of us you and me and all of you watching this get to be inside of is when not always is the answer. But when do we get to think about those moments, not just from the position of protection, but from the position of connection?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:17:20] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:17:21] Sometimes we cannot, right? I like to say that there are some rooms where the revolution is not going to happen. Our job is to stay safe. Check.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:17:30] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:17:31] And then when we just allow ourselves to consider, when I pitch this idea, when I go on this podcast with a really loving interviewer, when I do this thing where I have a little bit of power or privilege or possibility, is this the space where I get to play around a little tiny bit with what if I approach not from a protection standpoint where fear, fear, fear is, I mean all public speaking is discussed in terms of fear, but rather love. How can I care so hard about the thing I care about, not over care, not perform that I'm caring, just actually invite my body to show up like I care about the thing I care about so much. And so in good faith that I allow the care to spread that this big session that I'm about to go in and pitch my heart out on, I'm going to actually bring my heart.
And know quite honestly that it is a revolutionary act to do so. So if your body is sending you a bunch of mixed signals, yay, this is so exciting, boo. I don't have a history of doing this. And what if the people kick me out of the tribe? All those feelings is the sign that you're doing the brave thing.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:18:51] Mm-hmm. And I think about how when you can be grounded or when you can ground yourself in your worthiness, it makes it so much easier. Because I think part of the reason that gets so activated is what if they say, I'm not worthy. What if I do this wrong? And that means I'm not worthy. What if I'm kicked out of the group? What if I'm annihilated, right? Like all of these things, or I have to do it perfect and that's the only way I'm going to be worthy, or that's the only way, right? When your self-worth is at stake, you've got to do it perfect. You can't make a mistake, what other people think of you is so important. And ultimately what ends up happening is we end up sort of turning inwards and overly focusing on ourselves. And what you're inviting us to do with the focus on connection and focus on love, is to not ignore ourselves, but focus and put our attention on our audience, our listener, the person in front of us, and how we want to show up with our values and connect with them versus avoiding mistakes, failures, rejection, et cetera, which shuts us down.
Samara Bay [00:20:01] Which keeps us safe, but doesn't make the impact.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:20:03] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:20:04] So that's the inflection point, right?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:20:05] Right.
Samara Bay [00:20:06] Is which one are we going for? And truly no shame in either one.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:20:11] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:20:11] But when you're feeling that little inner Ooh, yes, yes, yes. It's so real. It's so real. I mean, humaning in front of other humans. There's this page in the final chapter of my book where I talk about exactly what you said, that we're often when we make it the hardest on ourselves, is when we focus on ourselves. And it's like great, cool, thanks. Tell me not to think about an elephant. Okay.
And so the offer is this, this Ted Talk that I love by a woman named Caroline McHugh. It's called the Art of Being Yourself. And she tells this story, she's an older Scotswoman, and she tells a story when she was a child in a big family and had to perform some music thing with all of her siblings for the family at large. And she didn't want to, she felt shy. And her mother famously said to her, "No one cares about you, go out there. Your job is to entertain. Your job is to entertain.” And she said, “From that moment on, I had, a spectacular disregard for being the center of attention.” And then she says, “From the stage of Ted, I'm not the center of your attention. You're the center of mine.”
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:21:26] I love that. I love that.
Samara Bay [00:21:27] It's like the worthiness inside of that, right? . Because I like to sort of joke that, and it's not a joke, but that we all have two modes of communicating. The joke is, of course we have 80 billion, but I would like to suggest that they fall into two major categories. What we sound like when we feel we're being evaluated, when we feel like we have something to prove, right? When we feel we're being judged, maybe it is as linguistic, a literal evaluative space, right? A job interview, but maybe it's not. And we just sense that people are sizing us up, and that sensing of that affects how we show up, right? . And the other way is when we don't, and it's unrealistic to be like okay, so that version of you that has nothing to prove, just bring her with you everywhere. Okay. Bye. Right? But there is something instructive there. And it's something in that Ted talk, it's something in that idea that when we are on a stage and all eyes are on us, our eyes are nonetheless also a value and what we are seeing matters and that public speaking is fundamentally about being seen and being heard, but it's also fundamentally about seeing and hearing.
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:22:50] Have you ever felt like a fake or fraud and worried that you'd be found out and fired? That's imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome is one of the most common ways that low self-worth shows up in our lives. When we feel like imposters, we hide and play small because we don't feel like we've earned our right to be where we are. We don't feel good enough or worthy. The truth is that you're not an imposter. And in order to stop playing small and start playing full out, you need to understand what's causing your feelings of imposter syndrome and utilize proven strategies to overcome it. That is exactly what my brand new free e-guide on understanding and overcoming imposter syndrome shows you how to do. Go to www.dradiagooden.com/impostersyndrome to snag your copy today.
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When we hear the most powerful and impactful speeches, or when we have the most powerful and impactful conversations, usually it's because we feel seen, right? And we feel connected, right? So one of the things that people, I'll say semi commonly say to me when I'm doing a workshop or a talk is like I feel attacked. And when I hear that as not as though I am not being mean.
Samara Bay [00:24:10] Like in a funny way or in the….
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:24:11] In the funny way, I always am like I hope it's lovingly attacked because I'm always coming with love and I'm never like you need to blah, blah, blah. But I think what's happening is that people feel seen, right? Because I'm saying things that expose parts of people, not any one individual, but they're like, oh, how are you in my head? What? Why are you calling blah blah? Why are you pointing that out? Ah, I thought it was just me, right? And so there's, I also get very good reviews. It's not like everybody's like, stop attacking me, don't come back here. But I think it's because people feel seen. And that's when we are in the mode and operating in that sort of flow, that energy, that presence, people feel seen by what we're saying, right?
And it's not like the zoned in, oh my God, my voice is quivering. Because then as you know it's a feedback loop, my voice is quivering, my legs is quivering. Oh my gosh, what are people thinking? Oh my gosh, I'm going to forget my words. Oh my God. And then you're gone, right? You've sort of retreated. People will then start saying, oh, she's shaking and her mic is quivering. And then we sort of create this feedback loop versus how do I say this in a way that reaches people and who can I look at and how is their response, right? Sort of a communicator of are, is it landing or is it resonating with them? Can I connect with them more deeply? And then it doesn't matter so much if your voice is a little bit shaky or your leg is quivering because you're in it and you're present and you're striving to connect.
Samara Bay [00:25:47] And you're doing something bigger than yourself, right? I mean, that process of helping people feel seen, whether they joke how dare you or not, is about helping not just you connect with them, but them connect with their fellow humans. Like what you're really talking about is something I feel a lot also that I think was an early inspiration honestly, for pursuing this work, which is that I don't have to have all the answers, I just have to create space for people to see that they're not alone. The solidarity of how much our relationship to our voice is our relationship to our powers, our relationship to ourself is our relationship to our work. And then how much most of us have inner voices that say, why can't you hack it? What's wrong with you? Just to allow that, turn to the person to your left, turn to the person to the right. You are not alone.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:26:46] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:26:47] Is a way of undoing, I was going to say systemic shame. I mean, quite systemic shame.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:26:54] Yeah.
Samara Bay [00:26:58] And then we are vessels for that message. And this is for anybody listening, even if your topic isn't what I just said, right? I mean, there is an element of public speaking, again, using that very super broadly, there is an element of public speaking that is inevitably mission-based, even if you're speaking on behalf of your company, right? Even if you're talking about third quarter earnings, right? Finding your way into talking about why you're talking about.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:27:22] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:27:24] If it could be an email, it should be an email. If it's going to be a person out loud in front of other people, there's got to be something there that's about helping humans human together.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:27:33] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:27:35] And once that's the case, it's just not about whether your voice is shaking. I mean,I think I'm like in this phase, I feel like we're having this conversation while I'm in this phase of thinking a bit more spiritually about life.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:27:37] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:27:48] Because I think there's just something really sacred that we miss sometimes in what it's to talk about the weird ideas inside of our own heads as they come out to just honor that we're all unique and we're all weird. And as much as we try to hide that we're weird, we're all weird. And then the question is, how do we weird out loud when we've got the chance in what way. And on behalf of who you know.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:28:18] Yeah. I love that it makes. No, I love it. I love it. And it makes me think of Eckhart Tolle and one of the things he talks about at times is like there's no physical manifestation of our thoughts, right? Neurosurgeons cannot find a thought, right? They can do surgery on your brain, they can cut your skull open. They are not going to be able to find the memory, the thought, the et cetera. Right? And so I do think it's like yeah, if we're talking about speaking and using our voice as sort of thoughts, it may manifest as bringing what's in our heads in this sort of, is it in here? Is it in our brains? Is it somewhere up? Where is it coming from? But it's coming through and it inherently is vulnerable and it's this powerful opportunity to connect and share ourselves and show ourselves. And then, similar to the title of your book, when we do it, we also give other people permission to do it as well.
Samara Bay [00:29:25] Yes. And when we have any platform at all, as you and I do in this moment what kind of modeling we use, I mean, what you just said is so real. And I write about it in chapter seven, but it's my one spot. Chapter seven, I joke, is the only chapter that's actually about the words coming out of our mouth. I'm like you might've noticed at the top of that chapter, I'm like you might've noticed we've gotten this far and I haven't talked about the words, but on the other hand, you can't do it without the words. I mean, you can, but it doesn't last very long. I dunno breathing. And it connects to the intrinsic, intrinsic messiness of us trying to get those thoughts that a surgeon cannot find from inside of us out. And so, although there are such totally understandable reasons that we want to come across as “polished”, as “articulate”, as “eloquent”, right? These really loaded words, as much as we want to come across that way, because there are judgy voices that are hearing us and that is also real.
I love to remind us of a few things inside of that. One, our ideas about the future, our plans, our half hopes that we haven't fully thought through, our feelings inside of our body and our memories, our future, our present, our past do not exist inside of us with words. I mean, right. Our memory is literally images
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:31:05] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:31:06] And so then the question is when we're going to talk about them, the process, is the process something that we can honor? That the process is let's try out this collection of words on this set of ears, and then we get to check in to that set of words land, if not I've got other words.
And we don't allow ourselves that kind of, sort of collaborative spirit sometimes when we're sharing something on the inside out. So I'd love us to know that we have that at our disposal. That's part of it. And then another part, let's see if I can go back to what I was thinking and then another-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:31:45] It's a challenge.
Samara Bay [00:31:46] Oh, another part is that good old Barack Obama's Yes, We Can, is such a reminder that sometimes the simplest way to say things is the best. And no matter what our industry is, and no matter how seemingly formal it is, with rare exceptions, like when you're on the stand in a legal trial, right? I bet informal is what actually will make the impact you want to make.
I wrote in chapter seven around the Yes, We Can conversation some alternative, fancy way of putting it, I believe inalienable in the right. And it's like you just laugh at it because it's like right. If we get in our own way about trying to clever our way into getting taken seriously the impulse is totally understandable and it will not work.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:40] Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Samara Bay [00:32:42] I mean I bet you and I are both with copy and with everything, always just trying to find, but what's the most visceral way of saying this?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:48] Yes.
Samara Bay [00:32:49] Right? How do I just say what we're really talking about here is our relationship to our own self, to how we be out loud in the world.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:58] Love that.
Samara Bay [00:32:59] And to the messages we've gotten that we can't be the way we think we're. You know.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:33:05] Yeah. One of the things I love so much of what you said, and one of the things that sort of brings up is the fact that you don't in this book prescribe rules or-
Samara Bay [00:33:18] Oh. You noticed that.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:33:19] That even strict guidance for this is what you should do and I love it so much because you are saying, no, I'm not going to do that because that is what the world is doing, right? The world is saying, if you talk this way and you speak this way and you show up in this way, then you'll be accepted and you'll have power. And we have tried that and it doesn't work, right? And you are saying, actually, I'm -
Samara Bay[00:33:40] It works for certain people and it's the-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:33:43] You're right.
Samara Bay [00:33:44] The lopsidedness is noted.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:33:46] Exactly. Exactly. And so you are saying, I'm going to tell you about the ways that we can speak and the ways that we can communicate, and then I'm going to encourage you to intentionally choose how and when you speak and express yourself in the myriad of ways that is possible.
Samara Bay [00:34:06] So appreciate that. So appreciate thank you for saying it that way. Yes. I have two thoughts on this. Let's see if I remember them both. One, part of what the Yes, We Can reference is an invitation for all of us on is who are we already listening to? What do we love to listen to? How do they show up in the moments that “matter,” really, when the stakes are just high, when people are listening, and a completely different picture begins to emerge. So that no matter how many shoulds you have in your head, if I don't show up this, I won't be taken seriously. We can sort of offer some evidence to the contrary rather than trying to convince ourselves, offer evidence. How does AC speak? How does Michelle Obama speak? How does she speak when she's doing a speech versus how does she speak when she's in a chat?
Can listening to some of our heroes give us permission not to show up like them, but to show up like us. As they have, that's one. Literally make a list. Right. It's so hard for our brains to keep those-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:35:10] Yes.
Samara Bay [00:35:11] Those names up there because we know those are my heroes. But then when it's like but my chance to speak, we revert back to these old shoulds. I think that is part of the cultural amnesia of living inside of a white patriarchal society. It's hard to keep them in our head and use them as they should be used.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:35:27] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:35:28] So make it easier on yourself. Make a list text them to your friends. That's part of it. And then the other part is that the reason that I deliberately am not offering don't do this, do this, is that the history of who the public has been made for and literally built for and how people have shown up in public spaces and how they have historically spoken is a history of teaching us not to trust our own voice.
And the entire point of Permission to Speak of the book, the concept, my heart, is that that's keeping us out of power, not the kind of power over. Right. Although maybe that too, but the power to our own sense of agency. So me or anyone who is a “expert” telling you how to talk is beside the point. The way to decolonize our public speaking is to know that we, with our own deepest sacred instincts have the answer. It's just buried.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:36:36] Yeah. I mean, I think there's so many parallels there with how I talk about self-worth, right?It's like we're born with it, right. So our voice, our natural pitch, right? We're born with it.
Samara Bay [00:36:49] Just babies.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:36:50] You know, babies. And then it gets covered over, right? Like layers of conditioning and messages and traumas and all of these things that disconnect us from the truth of who we are, right? And I feel you're saying the same thing about our voices, right? It's how do we uncover, how do we shed some of the conditioning, some of the messages, some of the all socialization, right? That has disconnected us from our true voice and using our voice as a source of power.
Samara Bay [00:37:21] So much and how do we, right? Part of it is engaging in conversations like this, finding our people, hello. And some of is finding our people in real life right. As well. Like who are our allies? Can our hype thread of friends also say, I love this one, every once in a while send each other a note saying, by the way, you have permission. I don't have any standing to give you permission. We all should be giving ourselves permission, but also in case, you needed it today.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:37:56] Yes.
Samara Bay [00:37:57] You have permission. I want to see more of you, not less. And remembering that actually, although it may be quiet and disparate right now, it is actually a movement. All of us talking about how to unlayer that stuff in all of our industries. We are vast.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:38:16] Yes.
Samara Bay [00:38:17] We're legion. And part of this also, and part of this also is what I like to talk about is voice justice. And it's the opposite. I think of voice bias, which is what all of us have on some level. So, when we think about voice biases, we sometimes instantly think of people who are judging us based on how we talk. But we do get to also think about the ways that we are accidentally judging people and categorizing who we should take seriously and who we shouldn't. Because often when we do that, we're also dismissing ourself. So those are some places to start, right? To remember that we're all in this together to know that we all have some actions that we can take to love on voices that don't sound what power has traditionally sounded like.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:39:08] Yeah.
Samara Bay [00:39:09] To love on our own, to love on our friends. When a friend shows up and is totally in like mode and all of the vocal fries there and they're like oh my God, I cannot even believe what just happened. Or somebody on a podcast, you can have that initial impulse, right? We are biased machines on some level. We can't avoid that first step maybe, but we can have the second wiser thought, Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. I just started to categorize that person as unworthy based on their voice. I wonder what their story is. Can I get curious there? Instead, in what ways have they picked up the voice they have in order to get by in the rooms they've had to get by in.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:39:47] Yeah.
Samara Bay [00:39:48] Because obviously when we extend that level of generosity to others, it does allow us to offer it to ourselves.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:39:54] Yeah. I love that. And I love that your book sort of models that process by highlighting the research on the ending your sentence with a question. And I think you cited a study that was done on sororities and how it's like well, in these statements they did have a question because it was communicating this. And in that statement they didn't, or what I mean? Or talking about, Glennon Doyle and Oprah using vocal fry, right? And it sort of reminds us to interrogate, gently interrogate, wait, where did this come from and where did this idea that this means somebody isn't saying something meaningful come from? And what have I been told? I think my parents used to say all the time, you say like too much.
You say like too much, right? That was very consistent, and I know it was coming from a place of they were worried about me being in a world where people were not going to take me seriously because like was scattered throughout my vernacular, right? It was how I spoke. And so it helps us to dismantle some of the conditioning that we have grown with. And it's sort of in so many ways, it's the water we're swimming in, right? And so it's hard to see it until you're like oh wait, I didn't think about that. And so I think your book really helps with that dismantling process.
Samara Bay [00:41:18] I mean, that's goals. So thank you. Thank you. There's all this in a way, I have a bunch of origin stories, of course a bunch of little sort of flashpoints resulted in this thing, this not just the book, but also everything, my favorite thing to talk about. But one moment really stuck out in 2018 when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had not yet won the general, but she had won her primary in New York. And those of us in LA were starting to hear about her through our friends. And she came out to LA to speak and I got a ticket. And as I was on my way there, I called my mom, as I say, big fan of mine, and she goes, oh, thank God, Alexandro Ocasio-Cortez really needs you. And I was like,bless mom. I think she's doing just fine without me. And my mom said, no, I can't take her seriously with that voice. And for context, my mom is a second way feminist. My mom kept her last name when she got married. She had a Fulbright scholarship. She's for women, and she couldn't take her seriously with that voice. And I remember saying in the moment when she said that, possibly without even taking a breath, or she's teaching us what getting taken seriously might sound like.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:42:40] Mm-hmm.
Samara Bay [00:42:41] And it was such a spark for me because clearly my mom is not the bad guy in this story. We all just have these assumptions and they don't even support the world we want to live in.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:43:00] Right.
Samara Bay [00:43:02] And so I'm just here to be like let's work backwards. If the world we want to live in has more leaders who sound like the life they've actually lived, and who sound emotionally available, what can we do to listen better to those up and coming voices now? And what can we do to show up as that type of leader every chance we get?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:43:23] Yeah. I think of the Audre Lorde's quote, the master's tools will not, is it dismantle the master's house, right? We can't keep using the same things that are keeping us stuck, keeping us suppressed to change the world, right? And the process is important, the process of recognizing, welcoming, embracing voices and being willing to sit with potentially our personal discomfort because it's breaking norms and rules that we have maybe been able to fit into, right? And that have served us, right? And to get uncomfortable with oh, that's not what I'm used to. Without letting our minds, right? Like watching our minds, but not believing the thought that, well, they shouldn't sound like that, or they shouldn't say that like that. And catching ourselves when we fall into those patterns and not beating ourselves up and shaming ourselves for it, but recognizing that as the conditioning and then being willing to release it and feel the discomfort of like oh, well, if she has the permission to speak like that, how might I have the permission to speak and what would that look like?
Samara Bay [00:44:39] And inside of that is dare we connect that discomfort, which is perhaps inevitable, right? I think you're right. To something that also feels like a little bit of mischief, a little bit of joy. That by us deliberately putting ourselves into those situations where we're experimenting with bringing a version of ourself out that is perhaps reserved for our favorite people, that we feel the discomfort and we also know that we're centering our own joy. That is part of the goal.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:45:14] I love that you're adding that in, because when I think about speaking, that's when it's fun, right? It is more fun when it's like I'm going to play with you and let's see how it lands. And I also think that's when we're speaking, whether it's to a crowd or to one person where we do come back to connection connect most because we're being our human, our full human selves.
Samara Bay [00:45:49] And like literally what's the point of life ? If it's not that.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:45:45] Yes. Yes. This has been such a beautiful free flowing conversation and I feel like we could talk for hours and hours. It's so funny when you said find my people. When and I met and you and a couple of other people at the summit in Puerto Rico, and it was like all the people that I connected with the most, they were like I live in LA, I live in LA and I was like why is everybody who I connect with the most lives in LA? And it was like well, it makes sense since I'm from the LA area and I also don't live in LA right now . So it was sort of this like oh.
Samara Bay [00:46:22] Listen, we're here.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:46:25] When I visit.
Samara Bay [00:46:28] I'm actually going to come visit Chicago and do a workshop in the fall. Oh, thing I have not announced yet.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:46:35] Please tell me about this. I would love to see you. I would love it. I would love it. So thank you so much for being willing to show up and share. So honestly and authentically for engaging in this really thoughtful and insightful conversation with me. Let people know where they can find your book. Remind them of the title and where they can connect with you.
Samara Bay [00:46:57] I love that. So, yeah. Easiest thing, if you go to my name.com, samarabay.com, you can learn about two things. One, the book, and two, how to actually work with me because I think visibility on our own terms is kind of where we're all at right now. If you want a amazing little secret goodie samarabay.com/goodies, G-O-O-D-I-E-S is your five minute warmup for what to do in those moments before. And then also I'm over on Instagram, at Samara bay, and as you know I do a reel a week and it's been such a delicious way to, I was going to say engage. That's such a social media term, but you know what I mean, have actual conversations with people all over the world. And God, it's just been so great since the book has come out in February, just actually hearing responses from people who are just like so getting their boat rocked. I didn't dare hope honestly, for this response and it's just been so meaningful.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:48:05] I'm so glad to hear that. So yes, buy the book Permission to Speak. It is wonderful. You can listen on Audible, you can buy the book wherever books are sold. It's really, an energizing and empowering book. And also get your goodies, we'll link everything in the show notes.
Samara Bay [00:46:27] Yikes.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:48:28] And be sure to connect with Samara on Instagram. Thank you again so much.
Samara Bay [00:48:32] Thank you.
[cheerful music starts]
Dr. Adia Gooden[00:48:36] Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode. You can also follow me on social media at Dr. Adia Gooden. If you loved the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
[cheerful music ends]
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
Cali by Wataboi https://soundcloud.com/wataboi
Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0
Music promoted by FDL Music https://youtu.be/ZdQI7WQWi_g
Glennon Doyle says, “Who were you before the world told you how to be?”
Samara Bay says, “What did you sound like before the world told you how to sound?”
In this episode of Unconditionally Worthy, I welcome Samara Bay, a Speech Advisor/Coach and Best-Selling Author of Permission to Speak: How to Change What Power Sounds Like, Starting With You. Samara has taught countless women how to harness the power of their voice, from candidates for U.S. Congress to C-suite executives, change-making entrepreneurs, thought leaders, Hollywood celebrities, and high school girls.
Throughout our discussion, Samara highlights the ways you can start to own the power of your voice and use it to connect with your worthiness. We talk about how a strong foundation of self-worth can help us tap into the strength of our voice, the benefits of affirmations, and change our beliefs about ourselves. You’ll leave this episode with a newfound connection to your voice and an awareness of how you use it.
How to Start Owning the Power of Your Voice
Accept and absorb the affirmations you receive.
It’s not enough to hear affirmations from others, you need to start taking them in and believing them. Hold onto the energy of the affirmations you receive because they can fuel your self-worth and empower you to use your voice more often. The more you use your voice, the stronger your voice becomes.
If someone you admire is admiring you back, write it down or keep them in your mind. Remember how those words or actions of admiration made you feel. That’s how you prime yourself for power. If you don’t accept affirmations (from yourself or anyone else), you’re priming yourself for powerlessness.
Don’t think about the worst-case scenario. Switch your focus to the best-case scenario.
Many people feel like they need to prepare themselves for the worst-case scenario, which leads them to think about that scenario way too much. Samara says thinking about the worst-case scenario is actually the fearful thing to do, not the right thing to do. Our caveman ancestors may have wanted us to think about danger, but our present selves don’t need to.
So, you can acknowledge the worst-case once, but let’s focus on the best-case scenario. Approach your speaking opportunities with love and care, rather than fear. Allow your body to show up with the care you feel about what you’re speaking about, in so much good faith that you allow the care to spread. This is a revolutionary act, so if you feel a lot of feelings and sensations in your body leading up to you speaking, that’s a sign you’re doing the right thing!
Ground yourself in your worthiness.
When your self-worth is at stake, you believe you have to perform perfectly and make no mistakes. But if you ground yourself in your innate worthiness before going into a speaking opportunity, your self-worth remains protected. Any mistakes you might make won’t put your worthiness at risk because you believe you’re worthy regardless of the outcome. Let go of all the “what if’s”. You are worthy no matter what.
Focus on connecting with your audience and conveying passion, rather than performing perfectly.
If you’re present and striving to connect with the person(s) you’re speaking to, it won’t matter if your leg is shaking, your voice quivers a little bit, or you fumble a few words. When you prioritize connection, you create a space for others to feel seen, heard, and not alone. Isn’t that what we all want to feel? That’s powerful. You also end up reading the room better and conveying more passion, which can make your speaking more effective and impactful.
Honor the process of speaking.
Samara emphasizes that our thoughts and memories do not exist inside of us with words, rather with feelings and images. Thus, when we need to talk about them, we need to experience the process of speaking, of trying out a set of words on a set of ears. Did those words land? If not, no worries, you have other words! Allow yourself to tap into that creative, collaborative spirit.
We’re human. We all make mistakes, whether it’s on a test, while cooking, or while communicating. Speaking is vulnerable, but it’s a powerful opportunity to connect, spread knowledge and passion, and hold space for humanity.
You can only speak like you. Stop comparing yourself to others.
Look to who you love listening to and how they show up in moments that truly matter. How does AOC or Michelle Obama speak, in a speech vs. just chatting? Now, acknowledge that they are them and you are you. Get rid of the shoulds, the thoughts that say, “I should be able to speak like Michelle Obama,” because that conditioning hinders you from being yourself. The “shoulds” hinder you from using your authentic voice as a source of power.
“Can listening to some of our heroes give us permission to show up not like them, but to show up like us, as they have?” Samara offers.
Dare to give yourself the permission to speak.
And have fun with it!
Let’s recap! To start owning your voice and using it powerfully:
Accept and absorb the affirmations you receive.
Don’t ruminate on the worst-case scenario. Instead, switch your focus to the best-case scenario.
Ground yourself in your worthiness.
Focus on connecting to who you’re speaking to and conveying passion, rather than performing perfectly.
Honor the process of speaking.
You can only speak like you. So, don’t compare yourself to others.
Dare to give yourself the permission to speak… and have fun with it!
Resources Mentioned:
Samara’s 5 Minute Warmup for Public Speaking: https://www.samarabay.com/goodies
The Art of Being Yourself (TEDx Talk) by Caroline McHugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veEQQ-N9xWU
NEW OFFER: Claim your FREE guide, How to Overcome Low Self-Worth & Imposter Syndrome: www.dradiagooden.com/impostersyndrome
About Samara Bay (she/her):
Samara Bay is the author of Penguin Random House bestseller PERMISSION TO SPEAK, a revolution in how to think about your voice and everyone else’s – out now, and available in 15+ countries. She's a Los Angeles-based speech coach whose clients range from candidates for U.S. Congress to C-suite executives, change-making entrepreneurs, thought leaders, Hollywood celebrities, and high school girls.
To connect further with Samara Bay:
Visit her website: https://www.samarabay.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samarabay
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana.
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