How to Improve Your Relationship With Yourself & Your Food with Wendy Lopez & Jessica Jones
— EPISODE 92 —
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Jessica Jones [00:00:00] When that hunger starts to creep up, instead of pushing it away like many people do, they're at their computer, they're working, it's taking a break and eating, or having a plan for eating. And I think that's just one simple step people can take to start to develop body trust.
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:00:21] Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life. And how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I'm really excited to bring you this episode. Today I have Wendy and Jessica from previously the Food Heaven Podcast and platform, and they are now starting a new diabetes education platform, which is really exciting and I'm so excited to have them on because theirs was the first sort of major podcast that I was on as a guest. They invited me and it was really exciting to come on. I've been on their podcast twice, and now it's so fun to have them on my podcast. We talk all about our relationship with food, our relationship with our bodies, and how this intersects with a sense of worthiness. One of the things that we talk about is self-compassion and the importance of practicing self-compassion as we're journeying and healing our relationship with food in our body.
I want to remind you that I have a course, Date Yourself: 4 Weeks to a Healthy Relationship with You, that is all about getting rid of the inner critic, practicing self-compassion, and engaging in true and sustainable self-care. And so if that resonates with you, I really want you to check out that course. Go to .unconditionallyworthy.com/dateyourself to find all of the details. We will also tell you a little bit at the end about the new platform that Wendy and Jessica are creating around diabetes education, so that you'll learn about that if that's something that resonates with you. Now, let's get into the show.
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I am incredibly honored and excited to have Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones on the podcast today, Wendy and Jessica, are nationally recognized Registered Dietitians, Certified Diabetes Educators and founders of Food Heaven, an online resource exploring the intersections of wellness and social justice. With over 4 million downloads, their popular podcast, Food Heaven, dives into evidence-based nutrition, mental health, health at every size, food and culture, intuitive eating and body respect. And I have been on their podcast a couple of times and was so honored to be a guest, and it's really fun to welcome them to this podcast today. So welcome, Wendy and Jessica.
Wendy Lopez [00:03:24] Thank you for having us.
Jessica Jones [00:03:26] Yay.Thank you for having us. We're so excited to bring this full circle.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:03:31] Yeah, turn the tables a little bit. So I'd love to start our conversation by asking you each to share a bit about your own self-worth journeys.
Wendy Lopez [00:03:41] I feel like it's on going. It's always, it's never ending, but that's such a heavy and loaded question. I'm like….
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:03:50] I dive right into the deep end.
Wendy Lopez [00:03:55] Yeah, that's a heavy question. I feel like it's something that I am unpacking in therapy. But I think for most people it starts when we're very young. And it's influenced by the relationships that you had with the people that were closest to you. And so, yeah, I mean, my childhood definitely had a huge influence on what I see as self-worth now, and my community in general. I would say the people that I'm closest to, my chosen family I think they have had the strongest impact on my self worth in a good way and just kind of like figuring out what that is and what that looks like for me.
Jessica Jones [00:04:41] Yeah. I'll say similar in terms of unpacking in therapy. I finally found a therapist who I really like, and I feel like she's helping me go to places I've never gone before. And one of those is like looking back at childhood and kind of where patterns come from and how self-worth is determined. I probably thought that I had a strong and solid self worth before, but then in therapy I'm realizing there's a lot of areas from childhood that have made my self worth not as strong. And like trying to figure out where those come from. Like for example, we moved around a lot and went to a lot of different schools. And one thing that I just thought about was I never had a black teacher ever. And it's not to say that I didn't go to black schools.
I went to a lot of different schools or I would've been like maybe in a GATE Program, like a gifted program, and I was the only black kid, like within the context of the school that was more diverse. And so anyway, we were unpacking that, like, wow, what impact does that have on yourself worth being sometimes the only black person in the class. And also never having a teacher who looks like you, who you can look up to, who is advocating for you or you feel reflected in. So I think that's something that I'm like, oh, okay, this is maybe why I have difficulties, like sometimes voicing what my needs are and things like that.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:06:22] Thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of people relate. I certainly relate. I think the thing about my experience is that generally my life was good growing up, right? And generally my parents are good, great people and great parents, and there were still things that were missing for me. And there were still places and spaces in my home life socially where I didn't feel good enough or I didn't feel fully included or accepted. And I sort of came to conclusions about who I was and what was wrong with me based on those experiences. And I think sometimes, it's a big trauma or something really big that impacts our self-worth, but sometimes it's like little things and small messages that we pick up along the way or experiences that are like, they're little nicks and cuts, but they don't necessarily provide this open wound that you can see and everyone can see. And so I do think that exploring our self-worth journeys, whether in therapy or coaching or something else, like in a spiritual journey is really helpful because it helps us sort of put these pieces together of like, oh, that's why I do this. Because often there are sort of underlying causes for the patterns that we engage in that on the surface level we just may not know where it comes from.
Jessica Jones [00:07:44] Yeah, Exactly.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:07:45] Yeah. Well, you all obviously focus about a lot on food and our relationship with food, and I think by extension, our relationship with our bodies. And I'd love for you to talk about what connections you see between our relationship with ourselves and our bodies and our relationship with food.
Jessica Jones [00:08:04] Well, as a dietician who has worked with, I would say at this point, thousands of clients, I know firsthand that our relationship with food can have an impact on our relationship with our body and vice versa. You might even say that. Like your relationship with your body is the first thing that's going to impact your relationship with food. And also, having said that, I don't feel like I have all of the answers there and it's something that I'm still working through for myself, like, what is my relationship with my body and like, what is that as I'm getting older too and having your body change or even during the pandemic. But yeah, I think for many clients they end up using food as a way to control, or at least attempt to control their body and their weight, their shape, their size.
And so that can kind of cause like this fraught relationship with food, which then also has its own negative implications. So I think it's a huge thing and we see it with so, so, so many people and it's good that now there's more people talking about these things and there's more accounts on Instagram and there's more people fighting for social justice and body liberation and fat positivity, but it's still, we live in a culture that's very entrenched in this thin ideal and diet culture. So it's something that is still a struggle for a lot of people.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:09:33] Yeah, I mean, I think about, you talked about sort of like using, like having this controlling relationship with food or using food to try to control our body to fit these unrealistic, often unhealthy ideals about what our body should look like. And then I also think about how we can also use food to self-soothe and we can use food, right? And some of that is fine, right? But sometimes we're sort of using food for a psychological purpose or mental emotional purpose that then creates this other dynamic that can happen. And so I can see certainly what you're saying, which is sort of like our relationships with ourselves and our bodies then sort of like impact how we see food, how we treat food, how we think about food. I think there's so many ways in which like diet culture, not eating certain things, right?
Like it's so ingrained in our language in when we go out to eat. Like I even catch myself being like, we're not calling certain foods bad, we're not calling certain foods, right? And it's like, there's no foods that are off limits. And I think that's one of the things I love about you all and the content that you put out because it's clear that there's no, like, this is healthy and this is not healthy, or you eat this or you don't eat that. It's freedom around how you relate to your body, how you relate to your food is something that is very helpful for us to all sort of work towards or move towards so that we're not feeling restrained and restricted by what we do or don't eat. And then punishing ourselves and criticizing ourselves and all of the sort of outgrowth that can come from that.
Wendy Lopez [00:11:15] Very complicated.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:11:16] It's, anything else you want to expound on around the sort of how complicated that is, Wendy?
Wendy Lopez [00:11:22] Yeah, I mean, I just think there's so much external influence when it comes to food now, whereas before it was more so survival and even pleasure. Now it's just with the internet. I think even before the internet there was so much information about food and what you should eat within the focus of health through that lens. But now with the internet, it's just made it a whole different thing where it's constant like the information that we're getting and people get really overwhelmed and confused and what used to be pretty straightforward, is now a very stressful thing for a lot of people. And so through our work we try to kind of quiet out all of the noise and make food straightforward, simple, not super stressful. And it's very complex, right? Because there's so many issues related to food, like food access and food insecurity and culture and then just preferences, personal preferences too. But we do try to help people kind of tap back into that enjoyment and simplicity a little bit more.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:12:45] Yeah. I love that especially, yeah, the enjoyment. And when I think about food and culture and how you all talk about accessible resources that are culturally responsive, it's like thinking about family gatherings, right? And family traditions around food and recipes and sharing in food and how unfortunately that also has been sort of squeezed out of our culture in a lot of ways, right? Like, we do fast food and whether that's actually like “fast food restaurant” or you're just kind of quickly making something and quickly eating something and like eating in front of the computer and eating as fast as possible because you have to squeeze it into everything else that you have going on in your world, right? It seems like we can lose touch with those sort of nourishing aspects of food that are beyond like, what are the nutrients and the calories that you're taking in, but also like what does it mean to share a meal, to cook a meal with people, to share traditions, to share stories, all of those things. So I wonder how you all think about those things and incorporate that as you're kind of keeping an eye on being culturally responsive and working with people of color in particular.
Jessica Jones[00:14:00] Yeah. I actually wrote another article on the cultural aspect of food, but one on just how it is social as well, the social aspect of food. And I think that that is something that's very much overlooked. And I see this all the time in my personal and professional life where people, I mean, even me, I can have a dinner at my house and someone's not eating it this time, or they're not eating at all or they're not eating this or this is off limits, or oh, they're out of their window. And so it becomes like, then you're not able to share, like you said, those moments, those traditions. Like what good is Thanksgiving if you're not able to enjoy the sweet potato pie. And again, I know that there's some medical reasons certain people can't eat certain things and I'm not talking about that.
And also there's an element of like, eat what makes you feel good too. And I respect that as well. But sometimes people just become so limited with what they are eating and they get in this very small box that doesn't allow them to enjoy all of those pleasures and also be able to be an active participant within their cultural traditions too. Because I think, oftentimes when people might be diagnosed with diabetes, for example, they'll come to us and say, the doctor gave them a handout of all the foods that they have to eliminate. And for many people it might be eliminating a lot of foods that are cultural to them that it's not necessary to eliminate. And I think that there needs to be a better job of kind of A, understanding how important culture is to people and how important those cultural food ways are and how we need to preserve them.
And B also, like if nutrition is important to somebody, how can we incorporate that in a gentle way, in a sustainable way, in a way that works for you. Because that's one thing that, if I've learned anything over the last 10, 12 years as a dietician and even personally, it's like, let's get rid of all the noise and really tune inward and figure out what is best for you and your body and what is that balance that makes you feel good physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, culturally, all those things.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:16:30] Yeah, I really love that because I do think in this, as you were saying, Wendy, the internet, it's like everybody says this is the right way, right? This is the right way to look this way, to feel good, right? So there's not that many people who are saying there's a lot of different ways. And here's the way that works for me and maybe try it on and see how it works, right? It's this works for me, so this is the only way and this is the way. And so then you could find yourself sort of chasing after all of these fads and trends and not listening to your body in the process. Like you're bringing up Jessica. It's like, and then you're sort of disconnected you from your body, you're probably not feeling very good.
And you also use the word sustainable. It's very hard to sustain things like this if it's not actually in line with how you live and also doesn't include some fun and some joy and some pleasure and some, all of those things. I think very similar things have happened with like exercise culture, right? It's suddenly not just like, hey, move your body in ways that feel good and functional and like find those ways. It's like 75 hard and you got to work out twice a day for 75 days, no matter how you feel. And it's like, woo. Like that is very intense, right? And you got to start over if you miss a workout. Like, just like, whoa.
Jessica Jones [00:17:57] Yeah. I know.
Wendy Lopez [00:17:58] Yeah. I feel like it's the way these things are marketed, it's like, it's supposed to be hard, whether it's fitness, whether it's food. Yeah. It's like, it should be a challenge. You should have difficulty, and it shouldn't be that way. You should actually be eating and moving your body with ease. It shouldn't be something that is a burden. And I mean, I've worked with people where it's a lifelong chase. It's like constantly doing diets after diets, restricting and cutting this out and doing this to manipulate their body and their weight. And in their mind they're like, yeah, this is what it's supposed to be. This is going to get me to the desired result, even though they've been doing pretty much the same thing for over 20 years. And it's unfortunate because people put so much energy and time and money, especially into that pursuit and it's like, is that fulfilling? What is that bringing to your life? Because you could really reinvest that into so many other things that probably pay off a lot more maybe spending time with people you love, traveling, I don't know, whatever brings you joy. Like you could really just kind of re-shift that focus and energy, but it's so complicated.
Dr. Adia Gooden[00:19:25] Yeah, that's.
Jessica Jones [00:19:26] Yeah. I was going to add I think too many people are overlooking the basics,. And sometimes I overlook the basics. I was going to say, I'll use myself as an example. I have found that with most people, and even myself included, what is missing is eating consistently. Like that is literally the answer for 95% I feel of issues. And even for myself, like having a breakfast when I get up and when I'm hungry, versus like waiting a couple hours, like it is night and day with mood, with energy levels, with having a bowel movement, like all the things. And so I think that we try to make this complicated thing, and it doesn't really have to be sometimes it's very simple. And then I also think, going back to the gentle nutrition thing, one thing that I am really trying to focus on for myself personally is just like the why am I doing these things, right?
Like, for example, I'm eating vegetables and making more of an effort, and I know I'm a dietician, but sometimes there's days when I don't eat vegetables, but I'm making more of an effort, not because I think like, oh, the vegetables are going to make me lose weight, or I need to eat vegetables for whatever reason, but more because they help to balance my blood sugar and I feel better. Like, period. I'm not hungry. I have regular bowel movements, which also makes me feel better. And I like the way they taste, which makes my meal feel more pleasurable. So I think that kind of figuring out the why behind all of these things for you specifically, like your unique blueprint and taking it back to basics is what's going to be most helpful for the majority of people.
Dr. Adia Gooden[00:21:20] Yeah. I love that because I think part of what we're talking about is turning health into this achievement oriented thing, right? It's like something you've got to chase after. And maybe if you do it perfectly, if you have your eating window and your fasting window just right, and you exercise just right and you eat this many macros and this many blah, blah, blah, right? Like, it's like you achieve it and then that's what makes you worthy versus like, you're already worthy. So how do you tune into your body and listen to your body and listen to what your body's saying about when it's hungry, when it needs nourishment, when it needs rest? Like how do you tune into that and then honor that? Like for me, yesterday I was hungry. Because the day before, it was my birthday, I had a brownie for lunch.
So I didn't have three full meals, which I know doesn't work for me. My birthday it was okay, but then yesterday I was really hungry and I was kind of like, huh. And so we were like, should we get ice cream? But I knew ice cream is fine, but I knew that I really needed protein. I was like a sugary treat right now. It would taste good, but I'm not going to feel nourished by it. So I was like, okay, let's just go home and I'm going to eat one of my beef sticks. And I did, I ate two and I made dinner, right? And that is what nourished me because I could feel in my body that I needed some solid protein, not just like a carby snack and a carby snack. Sometimes I'm like, I need carbs, and that's what I do.
And so it's really about listening and trusting that my body's messages are things that I should honor. They're worthy of being honored and trusting that my body's messages are something that I should follow more than an outside expert's ideas about what you should or shouldn't eat. And I think on top of that, sort of bringing in the race and culture piece, so many of these sort of experts are white men, white women, right? And I'd love to talk a little bit about how these sort of messages of diet culture can be really harmful in particular to women of color, to black women who maybe feel like we should follow them or feel like they hold the truth about what it means to be healthy, et cetera.
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Wendy Lopez[00:24:36] A lot of the recommendations and the science, it's not based on our demographic. It's not based on black people period or diverse populations. It's mostly based off of white people. And especially with the nutrition guidelines, it's so outdated and just so out of touch with the reality of most people. I feel even white people, it's like a lot of this stuff it doesn't look appetizing in terms of what the recommendations are. It's not very practical either for the average person. The guidelines for weight and BMI, which is like such an outdated tool that's also not rooted in the reality of what the United States consists of. I feel like most people don't even meet this normal range that they have set.
And so that can really affect people, especially people who don't see themselves represented in these ideal food ways that are being promoted. For example, like the Mediterranean is one of the biggest ones. It's always touted as superior. That is the gold standard. But there's so many food ways from all around the world that are very plant forward and that don't get enough attention or enough research really because the research is informing the recommendation. So if we're not really investing into other food ways and just seeing what the health benefits of those food ways are, then that's very limiting.
And so, yeah, I get a lot of people who think that they have to completely cut out the foods that they grew up eating. And it's interesting because a lot of these foods that like for example, Latin America, things like avocado, quinoa that are now in, it's like the industry decides when it's in, before avocado used to be a poor person's food, you ate it and things like eggs, you would eat eggs, rice, and avocado to like get some nourishment so that you could work because you didn't have enough money to like buy things like meat and things like that.
And now it's like these foods have become so expensive and inaccessible to poor people. So it's just very ironic how the narrative is controlled by industries that have a lot of money and that kind of get to decide what's in and what's out.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:27:33] Yeah, it's such a good point that if it's not in Vogue, then it's like, why are you eating that? I'm like, oh. But then soon as it's like an influencer or somebody says you've got to eat avocados, then suddenly the research comes to back it up. Everybody wants to eat it. And as you're saying, the price gets jacked up. And I also love what you said about the research, right? Because I think often people will say, well, this is researched as the best. And it's like, okay, well let's look at the problems with the research industry. Like one, research is often focused on white western countries and people, and two, the things that are often researched are things that will make people money, right? And if nobody's going to make money off of it, it's probably not going to be researched. But that does not mean that our traditions and the wisdom of our ancestors was wrong. It just means that it hasn't been validated by these western systems of research. And it may never be, but we can also still sort of pull from those traditions and then again, honor our bodies and see like, well, what does actually feel good for us?
Jessica Jones [00:28:47] Right.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:28:48] So I'd love to know how you all, when you're working with people who want to have a healthier relationship with food, a healthier relationship with their body, maybe get back to enjoying this part of their lives. What are some of the recommendations that you all offer to them?
Jessica Jones [00:29:09] Well, I think first and foremost, it's working on developing body trust. Because typically many people who come to see us, or even people who listen to our podcast or maybe it's being referred to them, they start out with really poor body trust. And that's why they feel like they need all of these external rules and regulations and counting and macros and this and that. And I think it's really about being able to tune into yourself and what your unique needs are and being able to raise that internal awareness with like you said, do you need a protein snack? Do you need sleep? Do you need rest? Do you need all these things? Like kind of yeah, being able to listen and respond too, right? Because that's another thing is so many people, their body might be telling them something like even me with the water, I was like, okay, I'm thirsty. My water bottle's out of water.
Normally I'd be like, okay, whatever, it's out of water, but let me just do this podcast interview, it's fine. But I think being able to say, actually let me pause, get my water, or like pause, go to the bathroom, get a snack. That's really important because then your body is able to trust that when it gives you a signal that it has a need, you're going to respond. And so yeah, one thing that can come up a lot with patients when we might first start working together, especially when I was doing more one-on-one private practice, is they felt like they were hungry all their time, or their hunger was erratic and all over the place. And I tried to explain to them that typically that can be because your body is not necessarily trusting that when it gives you a hunger signal, you're going to respond to it, right?
And so the way that you are able to have your hunger levels feel more normal is to eat consistently and have your body feel like things are predictable, right? Because the body does like some amount of predictability. And I think that that's one place to start is just, when that hunger starts to creep up instead of pushing it away, like many people do, they are at their computer, they're working, it's taking a break and eating or having a plan for eating. And I think that's just one simple step people can take to start to develop body trust. And if you're finding that you're not getting hunger signals or you really can't rely on them at all, then what I might recommend is, like you were saying, maybe having like three to four or five, six meals a day and kind of gently planning out some kind of timeframe just so you can get your body or your digestive track you used to eating again at a consistent schedule. And then with time and once it starts to trust that you're going to feed it, you'll start to get those signals again in a way that feels like they're not so erratic and all over the place.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:25] I love that. And it's making me think of a number of things. So one is, part of what I heard is like, we have to learn to trust our bodies and our bodies have to learn to trust us, right? So it's sort of like, if I don't trust you to listen to me, then I'm going to be like, hey, hey, hey, eat something, eat something, eat something.
Jessica Jones [00:32:41] That's it.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:42] If I don't learn to trust that you're going to listen. And then also how do we listen to those signals? But I was thinking about how ignoring our body signals and pushing past them, particularly for black people, can be rooted in slavery, right? Like you think about our enslaved ancestors, they were not able to honor their body's messages that they are tired, that they need food, that they need rest, that they need water, right?
They didn't have a choice but to ignore those messages. And then when they did eat, they made something out of scraps. They made delicious meals out of scraps that were then sort of looked down upon, right? As we're talking about like looking down upon the food of people who are poor. It's like, oh, like that's what you're eating. You're doing that, right? And it's like they were doing what they could to nourish themselves for these hard days of labor where they couldn't honor their bodies. And so it just to me speaks to how important and radical and powerful it is for us to do something different with our bodies now, right? Is that it's sort of like shifting out of this legacy that our ancestors had to endure and that we don't have to do that. And so how do we start listening to our bodies, honoring our bodies, caring for our bodies in a way that our ancestors didn't have access to?
Wendy Lopez [00:34:14] Absolutely. Yeah. And even thinking, like now in my previous position, I worked with a lot of undocumented immigrants and it was kind of similar, especially for immigrants working in agriculture. Like you're pretty much working 12 to 14 hour shifts and you can't really eat. And for a lot of people working in these conditions, they're renting a room. It's not like they have a functional kitchen. And so how are you supposed to tune into your body's needs when you're living under these circumstances? And so, with all of this, it's important to be flexible and not think of yourself badly because you're not able to get it right. Not saying that everyone is facing those conditions, but I do this myself where if something doesn't go according to plan, especially when it comes to food I'm really like, oh, I feel badly.
It's like a kind of a domino effect, right? Because then it starts affecting like other things and it's like it was one meal or one day or whatever, like a time in your life. Like this doesn't have to be so defining for people. And it's okay if at this point in time you're not able to work on things when it comes to food in a way that you think is ideal. Because there's so many things that we have to live with in life, some people are just not in the position to work on these things at the moment for whatever reason. And that's okay. And that doesn't make you a bad person. Or like, you're not making bad decisions because of that. Because you really have to prioritize. Like what is going to bring you the most peace right now? And sometimes eating healthy is just not it. It's not very realistic you know?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:36:22] I love that you said that because I think there are so many messages about you should get it right and if you don't get it right or you don't do it the right way or you don't follow the rules, then that's on you, right? Most of our messages in this country are, if you have a challenge with your health or if you are experiencing right something, it is an individual problem that is completely disconnected from the reality that you are navigating, right? Like, there's very little conversations in the broader public about food deserts and the cost of food and being able to have time to eat, right? Like there's very few conversations. The conversations are if you have snap benefits, you shouldn't be buying lobster. And that shouldn't, right? Like that's the conversation.
Not why do we leave in a country where some people don't have access to food, don't have time to eat food, where food that is less nourishing sort of overall is way less expensive than food that is more nourishing, right? We're not having those conversations as a broad, I mean, you all are having them on your podcast, but as a broader society, it's very individual. It's very individually blaming versus acknowledging society and the context. And I think the other part of what you mentioned is why I really love talking about self-compassion and I like to talk about I've created a framework for black self-compassion in particular, which is sort of acknowledging how you feel. I mean, that's part of core self-compassion, but that's part of like, even if you cannot meet your need, the need that your body is saying, can you even say like, I'm really hungry right now.
Right? And can you even acknowledge, even if you can't address it, even if you can't eat a meal, it's like, okay, I am hungry right now and so if when I can get access to a snack or some food, I'm going to make sure to do that. Or I'm thirsty and so when I can get some water, I will do that. And then not judging yourself, not criticizing yourself for maybe eating something that you hadn't planned to eat or eating something that made your body feel not so good and not being like, well, what's wrong with me? Because I think that's what often happens is people beat themselves up versus like, yeah, I'm human and I was starving because I didn't have access to a meal all day. And so when I got access to a meal, like guess what I was going to eat?
The carby fatty thing that my body was craving at that moment. And yeah, maybe they're like, this food upsets my stomach, but it makes sense that that's what I ate. Because that's what my body was craving. And that doesn't mean I don't have self-control. It doesn't mean any of those things. It means my body was shouting at me at that point and that's how I could quickly answer it, right? And so having that compassion and then I also like to talk about honoring your body, which is what we've been discussing, which is how do you treat your body with care and kindness, which is often so different than what societal systems and factors allow, right? Like you're talking about immigrants, when you think about migrant workers, like people who are on their feet, people who don't get breaks, people who don't have sort of some of the privileges that a lot of us have to choose around food and make time for eating, right?
That if there are small ways that you can care for your body even in little ways, that can make a difference. Any other sort of recommendations that you would have for people as they're building relationship with food? So I feel like we've gotten listened to your body also eating consistently, giving yourself grace as you go along. Is there maybe one more, one or two more recommendations that you'd like to leave the listeners with?
Wendy Lopez[00:40:16] I would say go for foods that are flexible and practical. Because, oftentimes what I've seen, when people try to eat foods that are more nutritious, they buy a lot of fresh food that tends to go bad really quickly. And so, I think buying staples like canned beans, canned tomatoes, frozen vegetables, frozen fruits, things that have a longer shelf life, it allows you to have a little more flexibility and grace when let's say you slip and then you're like, oh, you feel even worse because now your food is going bad and you're spending, you pretty much threw that money away. Try to stick with those types of foods, grains, all types of different grains that you can store. You can pretty much freeze anything at this point. So frozen breads and things like that. Again, just so that you have more flexibility and it's not something that's bringing you stress, you can get to it whenever you're able to get to it.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:41:16] I love that. And you're making me think of, there were a couple of reels that I saw going around the internet a few months ago and it was like my weekly like mixed greens container, I buy every week, put in the fridge, it goes bad and then I throw it away. Or like it's my apple's daily trip out of the house. It's like, take the apple, don't eat it, put it back in the fridge.
Wendy Lopez [00:41:38] Exactly.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:41:39] And so I think just like normalizing that because things come up and like if a friend or somebody's like, hey, let's grab dinner. You don't want to feel like, well I got this food and it's going to go bad, so I can't go to dinner. And then you're forcing yourself, it's like if you have the ability to go to dinner, like enjoy that. And I think those things that you're also recommending, Wendy, they also make it more affordable, right?
Like canned beans and rice and frozen fruits and vegetables are often much more affordable than fresh and they stay for longer. And I think I also maybe would add in starting small and starting manageable. I think it can often feel like I've got to rework my whole diet and I've got a meal plan seven days a week and do all the things and I got to, it's like, how about start with like, could you eat breakfast that feels nourishing twice a week? Right? And like, what might that be? And when you are like, can you buy that stuff at the grocery store ahead of time? And so making it manageable, then you can build on it versus feeling like you have to have this Instagramable diet and food plan that people will approve of versus like, hey, you know what, like I'm going to add an extra serving of vegetables one day a week and see how that feels. And I think that goes back to what Wendy was saying is like, it feels like it should be hard versus like, no, it could be easy or it could be simple and accessible and starting somewhere is better than feeling overwhelmed and like nothing you do will be good enough and then not taking care of yourself and your body in a way that does feel good and nourishing.
Jessica Jones [00:43:18] Yeah, I can almost guarantee from my experience, there are maybe like 5% of people who do well with a complete overhaul and somehow stick to it and whatever, but 95% of us, it's just not going to work long term. Even though you want to so bad and you're so motivated and it's like, I'm going to do all the things and I'm going to do them now and overnight. Like, it just never works. Save yourself the stress. And I like what you were saying about adding a serving of vegetables and also lean in on processed foods too. I buy processed foods all the time. Things that are going to help make the cooking or eating process easier. Whether it's, I'm really into bag salads right now, just getting a bag salad, some smoked salmon and maybe an avocado and some crackers and dressing and calling it a day, right? Like it doesn't have to be this thing where you're cooking every meal from scratch. This thing about maybe yeah, one or two days a week, like once, something that you can add to the meal. And also, like you were saying, see how you feel because oftentimes, and again, I'll go back to the vegetables, people think like, oh, I should be able to just eat this plate of vegetables and it's going to feel good.
But that can also feel bad too. Like there's a lot of people where eat and I do not recommend eating just plain vegetables for the record. But there's a lot of people who they might find that certain vegetables don't sit right with them. And so again, that's part of the process of listening and learning. About what works best for you.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:44:56] Yes. I love that. Yeah. I was going to throw in like also, don't just eat bone broth.
Wendy Lopez[00:45:03] That's a big one right now.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:45:06] I was preparing for a colonoscopy and you have to just drink clear liquids. And so I was like, bone broth is probably the most nutritious thing I can eat in these two days because it's going to be rough. And so I was like eating the bone broth. I was like, this is not enough. For the record this is not enough.
Jessica Jones [00:45:24] That's literally just water.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:45:30] Well thank you all so much. I have so appreciated having this conversation with you. I know it'll be really helpful and beneficial to the listeners. Will you share with people where to find you, where to connect with you?
Wendy Lopez [00:45:45] Yeah, so our website is foodheavenmadeeasy.com. And on social media we're at Food Heaven and that's where we're most active, even though we're not super active right now on there. But, that's where you can find us.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:46:00] There's lots of old content.
Jessica Jones [00:46:01] There's a lot. And I was going to also say, by the time this comes out, we will probably have another venture company going on in the realm of nutrition and diabetes and pre-diabetes. So we'll be talking about that on the Food Heaven platform. So if that is something that you want to get assistance with, definitely check us out.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:46:30] That's awesome. That's so great to hear. And we'll link everything in the show notes. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much again. I really appreciate you all sharing your time and your expertise with me today.
Wendy Lopez[00:46:43] Thank you.
Jessica Jones [00:46:44] Yay. Thank you.
[cheerful music starts]
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:46:48] Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode. You can also follow me on social media at Dr. Adia Gooden. If you loved the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
[cheerful music ends]
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
Cali by Wataboi https://soundcloud.com/wataboi
Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0
Music promoted by FDL Music https://youtu.be/ZdQI7WQWi_g
Is your relationship to food feeling like a burden? Do you want to improve your relationship with yourself and make healthier choices for your unique body? Do you want to feel a sense of freedom and joy when it comes to food? You’ve come to the right place.
In this episode of Unconditionally Worthy, I welcome Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones, nationally recognized Registered Dietitians, Certified Diabetes Educators, and Co-Founders of Food Heaven, an online resource exploring the intersections of wellness and social justice.
Listen in as we have a candid discussion about the intersection of self-worth and food, how to improve your relationship with food, and expert tips for developing body trust and making healthier food choices.
The Connection Between You & Food
Your connection to food is complex, starting the moment you’re born and developing as you grow and experience life.
Unfortunately, many people try to use food to control their body size or weight, often to fit unrealistic standards, which can cause a negative relationship with food. Others use food for mental and emotional purposes, like to soothe themselves, fill a void, or distract from something. These dynamics can impact our self-worth in pretty damaging ways.
Whether we realize it or not, diet culture has been so ingrained in us that it can be hard to achieve a sense of freedom in how we relate to food and our body. With the influx of information and opinions on the internet, it’s easy to get overwhelmed and confused about what the “right choices” are when it comes to food and health… When really, there is no “one diet fits all”.
The key to overcoming these challenges is implementing practical strategies that help you tap back into the simplicity and enjoyment of food. Food is supposed to be nourishing, not just in the sense of nutrients and calories, but also in the ways of food traditions, cooking as a hobby, and sharing meals with loved ones.
“Let’s get rid of all the noise and really tune inward and figure out what is best for you and your body and what is that balance that makes you feel good physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, culturally, all those things,” Jessica says.
“You should actually be eating and moving your body with ease,” Wendy adds, “it shouldn’t be something that is a burden.”
If your relationship with food is feeling like a burden, don’t worry! Wendy and Jessica are here to share lots of simple tips and recommendations for developing body trust and improving your relationship with food.
Tips for Developing Body Trust & Improving Your Relationship With Food:
Work on cultivating self-compassion. Acknowledge how you feel (even if you can’t meet your body’s needs at that moment). Try not to judge or criticize yourself for making a less ideal food choice.
Don’t overlook the basics! For most people, what’s missing is eating consistently. Try to have breakfast soon after you wake up, instead of hours later, and don’t frequently have large gaps between eating. Do you often skip lunch? Try incorporating more foods/snacks into your midday. The body likes predictability and will trust you more (ie. give you regular hunger signals) as you eat more consistently.
If you can’t rely on hunger signals at all, try having 4-6 smaller meals per day to get your body used to eating more consistently. Then, over time, you’ll start feeling regular hunger signals again.
Revisit the “why” behind your food choices. Why are you eating veggies? Why are you having dessert? Why are you drinking water? Why are you having a snack in between meals? This will help you identify what choices are serving you and what isn’t.
Listen to your body’s messages and trust that they are worthy of being honored and followed. Your body has unique needs that require your awareness and response. Don’t eat “healthy” foods that upset your stomach (Hi, chickpeas and cauliflower!). Refill your water, go to the bathroom, and grab a snack whenever you need to… don’t procrastinate or ignore those needs!
Go for foods that are flexible and practical. Buy staples with longer shelf lives, like frozen veggies and canned/dry beans and grains, rather than fresh produce that expires more quickly. We don’t need that added stress of food waste!
Don’t demonize processed foods. There’s nothing wrong with getting a bagged salad, microwavable grains, or your favorite crackers and dip. Not every meal has to be made from scratch or from whole foods. Follow your gut and make choices that will help you make progress towards where you want to be.
Start small and start where you can. Prioritize what is going to give you the most peace right now. Sometimes eating healthy every day is just not it! Maybe start with meeting your minimum hydration needs, adding one serving of vegetables to your weekly diet, or cooking at home more instead of getting takeout.
Remember, a complete health overhaul will not work for 95% of us! Save yourself the stress and take small steps towards a better relationship with yourself and your food.
Resources Mentioned:
Enroll to the Date Yourself course: 4 Weeks to a Healthy Relationship With You: www.unconditionallyworthy.com/dateyourself
Claim your free e-guide: How to Overcome Low Self-Worth & Imposter Syndrome: www.dradiagooden.com/impostersyndrome
Listen to The Food Heaven Podcast - How to Cultivate Self-Compassion with Dr. Adia Gooden: https://foodheavenmadeeasy.com/how-to-cultivate-self-compassion-w-adia-gooden
About Wendy Lopez & Jessica Jones (she/her):
Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones are nationally recognized Registered Dietitians, Certified Diabetes Educators, and founders of Food Heaven, an online resource exploring the intersections of wellness and social justice. With over 4 million downloads, their popular Food Heaven Podcast dives into evidence-based nutrition, mental health, Health at Every Size (HAES), food & culture, intuitive eating, and body respect.
To connect further with Wendy, Jessica, & Food Heaven:
Visit their website: https://foodheavenmadeeasy.com
Follow them on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/foodheaven
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana.
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