How to Be Honest and Kind With Yourself with Kristina Mand-Lakhiani
— BONUS EPISODE—
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Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:00:00] If you love yourself, you generally tend to take good care of yourself. That's a symptom of you loving yourself. Because if you love yourself, you would want to take care of yourself. But just because you take care of yourself doesn't necessarily mean that you love yourself.
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Dr. Adia Gooden [00:00:18] Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life. And how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
Hello and welcome to a very, very special bonus episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I am so excited to share this episode with you, and we are doing something we've actually never done before on the podcast. It's actually two things. One is that we have a return guest, Kristina Mand-Lakhiani, who's the co-founder of MindValley, which is an amazing online platform that provides self-development and growth and self-help resources and courses and quest. And so she's coming back on the podcast and she's the first guest to return. And this is our first time doing a bonus episode. And we decided to do a bonus episode because Kristina is talking about her new book Becoming Flawesome on this episode with me. And the book is out now. And so we wanted to release the episode to be at the right time when the book was released so that when you heard this episode and you wanted to go and dig into the book, you could buy it and get it right away.
This episode is just wonderful for so many reasons. I mean, personally, I just love talking with other people who are coming at these topics around self-worth and self-love, and how we show up and be courageous in our lives from different perspectives. And so it's so fun to wrestle with these challenging topics with other people who are thinking deeply on it. And Kristina is another person who thinks deeply about these topics. She gives honest advice and guidance, right? It's not sugar-coated, it's not, just do these couple of things and everything will be amazing. It's, this is challenging. How do you show up for yourself? How do you be honest with yourself and have that be a form of self-love? So, that's some of what we wrestle with on today's podcast.
I know that you're going to find it insightful and empowering, and you're probably going to feel like something stirs within you. And then I really want to encourage you to go out and get Kristina's book Becoming Flawesome. It is available now wherever books are sold. And this will just help you take this conversation about being loving to yourself, being honest with yourself, showing up to your life with courage, embracing your flaws, and the fact that you're awesome. It'll help you take that to the next level. So be sure to grab the book and tune into the episode.
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So I am really excited to welcome Kristina Mand-Lakhiani back to the podcast. Kristina is an entrepreneur, an international speaker, an artist, and an author, and she has a forthcoming book that we're going to talk about. She has been engaging in the personal transformation industry for over 15 years, collaborating and playing with leading thinkers and teachers in consciousness, relationships, human performance, and life optimization. Kristina started her career working for the government of Estonia, where she was born and raised before she joined the nonprofit sector and worked for organizations such as United Nations, Oxfam, and others. In 2003, she co-founded MindValley, a global school that delivers transformational education for all ages.
Kristina is the author of Live By Your Own Rules, a 30-day optimal learning quest, designed to transform how you identify and understand and accept all dimensions of your authentic self so you can live an extraordinary life and make happiness a regular practice. I'm so excited to have Kristina back on the podcast. And Kristina, you're actually the first guest to come back to the podcast twice, because our first conversation was just that good. So I'm really excited to have you back on the podcast to talk with you more and also to hear about your forthcoming book. So, welcome back to the podcast.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:04:55] Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor for me, actually. I was very honored and very happy to be on your podcast the first time. And this is totally, totally unexpected, so thank you. Thank you for that. And by the way, to add to my bio as of yesterday, I'm officially a cattle farmer, and I have sheep.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:05:15] Wow. You have sheep?
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:05:16] Yes.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:05:17] Did you buy a farm or did you just buy the sheep? Tell us a little bit more about that story.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:05:24] Well, my dad inherited his ancestral home where we can trace our family back to the 17th century. And it has been standing decaying for years. And I always had this feeling of responsibility that I want to restore it. So I bought sheep as fluffy lawnmowers to eat the grass and the big lawns.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:05:43] Oh my gosh. I love that. It's so cool to have that history, have that legacy in your family, and then to be also contributing to the environment, I'm sure, and all of these things. That's really cool to have sheep. Very cool. Thank you for sharing that life update, that bio update. So I think we had our first conversation, was it last fall? And then we had another conversation on your podcast maybe, or maybe it was in January. We had like one in the fall, one in January, this year, and last year. So I'd love to just kind of hear kind of what you think about your self-worth journey and how it's transitioned over time. So maybe there have been transitions over the last year, maybe not, but kind of how do you think about sort of the evolution of self-worth in your life?
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:06:36] I believe that in my own case, and I'm just talking from my personal experience right now, the journey of establishing my self-worth is still ongoing. I'm a work in progress. I think it's similar to how we take a shower every morning. No matter what, no matter how well you clean yourself, you can soak in a bath for half an evening and come out clean and then time passes, and then you realize you need another shower. So, that's what it's been happening for me. It's such an interesting journey. Because it goes up and down, up and down and every single experience gives you another material to reinvent yourself, to reinvent your own value. But I think the most crucial part in my journey is the support that I have. And I'm the advocate of you being your biggest promoter and your biggest supporter.
But I also believe that every single one of us needs a person to support. And in my life, there have been people who have believed in me. And very often when I feel that maybe I didn't perform very well, that critic in our head is the meanest one. I think I'm just lucky to have people who will tell me, ah, forget it. You're actually the superstar, or whatever I need to believe in. And maybe I should start talking more about those people. I haven't done that. Not in my book not anywhere.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:08:03] Yeah. I mean, I think it's so powerful to have people who hold on to our worthiness and affirm our worthiness when we can't do that for ourselves. Because there are often times when we really struggle to kind of own and claim the fact that we're worthy and having people in our life who like, hold that belief for us, right? And who can see us more clearly than the inner critic in our head can see us. Can be really powerful and transformative. And so, I love that you're pointing that out and highlighting the importance of those people in your life.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:08:40] Yeah. What I want to say is that in our industry, we do have a tendency to prefer self-reliance. And, everything's in your hands, right? You're the master of your own life. You're the creator of your own life, and you're the first person to give your love to, to give your respect, to support you and I agree with all of that. But we're also human. And if we deprive ourselves of that support, of that help, and if we tell ourselves, oh, if you have to rely on another person, that means something is wrong with you or you're not doing your work well, it is such a slippery path towards being discontent with what you have right now? And it just brings me back to this very important idea that nothing is absolute in this life. Sometimes you have to learn to rely on yourselves. Sometimes when people turn their backs, can you find the strength? And sometimes it's okay to say, I need somebody's support. I need to hear someone tell me that I did well.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:09:34] Right.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:09:35] And I think both are right and we shouldn't prioritize one over the other. So I think the learning point for me in the past one year has been to be actually grateful for those people who are there to give me their belief when I don't have enough for myself.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:09:54] Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you point that out, right? Because we can sort of get to these extremes, right? Like either you're totally self-reliant, totally independent, you don't need anybody, and you shouldn't need anybody. And you shouldn't care what anybody thinks about you. You should never want anybody, right? That's extreme because we're humans and we're meant to be in community, and we're meant to be in relationship with each other. And that's how we have evolved, right? And so it makes sense that we need relationship, we need connection, we need support. And if you go on the other extreme of like, you only get affirmation of your worth, you only get love from other people. And if you're on your own, or if you have a period of lull in terms of relationships that you're just falling apart, that's also not so helpful. So there's got to be some middle way, some middle ground where you both sort of acknowledge and appreciate and cultivate healthy and affirming relationships. And you also build a healthy relationship with yourself so that you can encourage yourself, you can support yourself, and you're not like, desperate for other people to affirm you. Because in the absence of that, you have no affirmation or support.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:11:02] I think the only problem with what we're talking about right now is that people actually don't like to have choices like that. They prefer simple solutions, to-dos and not to-dos, the simple rituals. I do this and I'm fine. And they just want simplicity. Because when we simplify life. We actually make it more complicated. And one example since we're talking about self-love is going into the rituals which essentially feel like self-love and forgetting the essence of what self-love means. And very often in our industry, we hear that, oh, if you love yourself, you have to take care of your temple. You have to eat well, exercise, sleep well, all these good things. But what happens is that sometimes the simplistic ritualistic things, they make us forget the essence of the phenomena and focus on the things which are so tangible and so understandable and so surface level. And I've taught self-love for such a long time, and sometimes you ask a person, so do you love yourself? And they're like, yeah, look, I do this, this, and this. I eat well, exercise and all these simple things, but as you talk, you're not convinced sometimes. And my question is and if you fail in self-care rituals, do you-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:12:22] Right.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:12:23] Still love yourself? What do you do if you eat that pizza that you deny yourself, or whatever it is, ice cream, chocolate, who knows wine? What do you do? How do you punish yourself for that? It's much easier to understand self-care rituals, even if sometimes they are draggy and maybe not always enjoyable, especially if we're talking about sports, in my case. And it's so much harder to understand what's deeper, what's beyond that. And what we were talking about that actually made me think about how in our industry, personal growth and transformation, we really love those simple rules. Give me the scenario. Give me the to-do list. And as a good girl, as a perfectionist, as an ambitious person, I'll do it to the dot, and I have to be happy at the end. But that's not how life works.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:13:13] Yes. Yeah. Oh, I just think there's so much in what you're saying. I have a number of thoughts coming to mind. One is sort of this saying, and I think it comes from Buddhism, but it's like everything that we're doing is like the finger pointing to the moon. And you cannot confuse the finger-pointing to the moon with the moon, right? It's like we're trying to describe the moon or self-love, and it's like, these are pointers. These are things that can help you get there or understand it or feel it. But let's not confuse exercising with self-love, right? It may be a way to love yourself. Maybe. But on some days, the best way you love yourself is by letting yourself have a day where you're on the couch all day and you're just relaxing and resting and doing nothing.
And some days the best way to love yourself is by going out and exercising, right? And so, the rules, right? Kind of like you're saying these rules of like, just do these three things, or just do these 10 things, and then you love yourself and then, right? Then it gets muddled because it often shifts and changes depending on what you need. And as you're also pointing out, it's really easy to create a achievement perfectionistic mindset and approach to the where like, okay, I'm just going to love myself perfectly, and if I did these 10 things, then I'm perfect. And I did it and I got an A. And so I love myself. It's like, what if you got a B, right? And it's like, well, then that's actually the deeper question of like, okay, so you missed the mark, or you didn't achieve your goal, or you needed a day off. How did you respond to that? Did you respond to that by beating yourself up and saying, you must not love yourself, or you're not good enough? Or did you say, ok? I'm listening to my body and my body says today is not a workout day, right? And my body says what I need today is something different. And so I'm going to honor that and give that to myself.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:15:12] Or maybe you did miss the workout date because you partied too much last night.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:15:16] Right, right. Maybe it is that.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:15:20] That is what you wonder because we're so judgemental to how we perform and I think one of the ways to explain it is this, yes, if you love yourself, you generally tend to take good care of yourself. That's a symptom of you loving yourself. Because if you love yourself, you would want to take care of yourself, but just because you take care of yourself doesn't necessarily mean that you love yourself. Causality goes only one way, in my opinion. Self-love is relevant exactly in the times when you're not your best.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:15:54] Right.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:15:55] That's when you need it. It's easy to love a good child. Can you love a naughty child?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:16:00] Right. Right. It's how you show up for yourself and with yourself in your hardest moments. I think about like, do you abandon yourself in those moments? Do you beat yourself when you're down with self-criticism? Or do you show up as a loving, caring person who says, okay, that was rough, right? That partying last night that made you miss the meeting this morning. Like, ooh, that's kind of rough, right? You don't feel good. You're upset, you miss the meeting. Like, this is tough and that doesn't mean like, whatever. Who cares? It means like, okay, how do we clean it up? Like, you're not the worst human in the world. You're not awful. You may be like, made a decision that wasn't the best choice. And that's what we do and that's okay. And I still love you. And okay, how are you going to clean it up, right?
And I think one of the things that people often struggle with, I know when I talk about self-compassion and things like that, is that they feel like if they're kind and compassionate to themselves, that means they're permissive, right? That means that they don't hold themselves accountable. And it feels like if they hold themselves accountable, they have to be harsh and mean. I know that you told me just before we started recording that one of the things that you focus on in your new book is honesty, self-honesty, kindness, and courage. And so I feel like those three themes touch on what we're starting to get into and how, so I'd love to hear how you feel like these things are connected, how you can engage in all of these pieces these principles or values and kind of how you think about all of this together. Like, how can you be kind to yourself and be honest with yourself and hold yourself accountable and be courageous? I think a lot of people might think, how does that all go together?
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:17:49] So I'll actually probably split it in two because the example that you brought up in the very beginning requires just half of what I talk about in the book. I also get these questions. People are afraid that if they love themselves too much, they'll be complacent, indulgent. I've even heard someone tell me a healthy dose of self-criticism is good. It makes you develop. Well, as an analogy, I like to bring raising children. And there are two ways to raise children. One of them is through punishment. And I was born in Soviet Union, so I've experienced a lot of that. And punishment is not necessarily that you didn't do well, I'm going to punish you. Sometimes it's you have to do well. Because if you don't, you'll be a loser. And that's a punishment itself. So I'm not talking about specifically the punishment, which is punishment as a-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:18:43] Right. Like harsh spanking, beating kind of, yeah.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:18:47] And as a child when I was four years old, I was picked for Olympic reserves and Soviet Union was very good at Olympic champions in the good old days. That's a phrase. I don't mean they were good. So as a four-year, I was picked for Olympic reserves in gymnastics and that is one of my first memories, my memories not memories by someone else because I know what it is like. I was in the first training alone, my mom wasn't there. And I cried because I remember how they forced me to sprint, a four-year-old, I cried. And I came home and I said, Mom, can you please never take me to that training again? So it's probably one of my earlier traumas until now I have very hard relationships with sports. And of course next year they picked me for Olympic reserves for figure skating because obviously, I had had what it takes.
Although a lot of people, contemporary people would say, I didn't have what it takes. Because I didn't go through that because we live in a society, which is trained to believe that every success has to happen through pain and punishment and struggle. That's just the paradigm in which we live. But how I look at myself is that I'm a waste material in sports. And we as a society never pay attention to waste material. I was lucky because I became waste material in sports at a very early age at four. Some people become waste material after they have lost their childhood, their health, their dreams. All the prospects for the future. And they still become waste material. And what we focus on are the few who make it. And we idealize that proves the saying that whatever doesn't kill you makes the strongest exactly the way to go.
When you raise children. There is another way, not through punishment, but through encouragement. And it works differently. A child does something. For example, my daughter started learning violin and they had a talent show in school, and she had only learned it for a year. She still doesn't know all the notes properly. And she said, me and my friend, we just want to perform our own composition. I was shocked. I was surprised, you just started learning. It was a little funny. I was proud of her courage and her determination. But when they were done, we chatted about it, I asked her how did she like it? She said, yeah, I didn't like this, this and this. I said, well, next time you can maybe ask your teacher to help you to arrange it properly. And she's like, yeah, I don't know. We'll see.
And then she performed again and again and again, that's when you don't punish a child. That's when you applaud a child. So what happens? The child learns that failure is okay. So it's the kindness that you need, not so much self-criticism but kindness because it's not about are you going to close your eyes on not doing anything. People are not complacent and indulgent and lying in bed saying, I love myself as I am. Because they truly love themselves. It's a distortion of self-love. They do that because they don't love themselves enough to go and challenge themselves. It's kindness and understanding that you will be able to love yourself even if you fail miserably. That gives you the courage to actually go out and challenge yourself. We often don't understand that. We think that if I'm going to love myself too much, I will not have the motivation to go out. The motivation will come out of kindness and unconditional love. Not out of punishment.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:22:19] Yep. I totally agree. And I love giving the example of two teachers, two coaches, and asking people to imagine, would you prefer to be with the critical discouraging coach that says, I don't think you have it in you. I'm really not even sure why you're on this team. I'm not sure, right? Like, I don't know. That's a mistake. That's a mistake. That's a mistake. Right? Like, has high expectations, but it's really critical and discouraging. Or would you prefer to be with a coach who says, okay, you can do this. It's going to be a challenge, you're going to have to work for it, but I'm going to be with you every step of the way. Yes. You got that right. Okay. We got to push harder on this. Let me help you with this. There's a little extra practice needed with this, but like, you got it. You're go, right? Like, and almost everybody says, I want coach two or I want teacher two, right? And yet, internally we are teacher one to ourselves and think that that's going to be motivated when really it's maybe motivating in the short term. But usually what ends up happening is you feel discouraged. You don't feel like you can do it, you procrastinate. Right? It's not a sustainable way to kind of show up and share your gifts or do what you want to do.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:23:31] And you become waste material in essence. The question is, when are you going to become waste material? That's the question. I had what I needed for sports obviously.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:23:43] Yeah.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:23:44] But that area of my life has been cut off for me since four.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:23:48] It was squashed, right? You're joyful. I'm sure you loved gymnastics before that.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:23:52] I still love ice skating.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:23:55] Nice. I love for you also to talk about this piece around honesty, because to me that's also where people can sort of find this combination with. Okay. You can be honest with yourself without being critical. So when you say honesty and self-honesty in particular, what does that mean? What does that look like?
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:24:16] Well, I talk about honesty mostly from the angle of self-honesty. Because if we look at this phenomenon in general, the opposite of honesty is deceit and lying. And these are the topics which are very heavily impacted by our ethics and morality. And it's a hard conversation and because of that. If I were to ask people our audience, are you honest with yourself? Most people and I've asked that question many times, will say, yes, of course, I am and that's our intention, which is good. But the thing is that the nature of delusion is that you're not aware of it. Like the fish is not aware of water. You're not aware that you are lying to yourself. We just don't know that. So what I'm trying to convey usually is first of all chill about the honesty towards other people, because that's not impression.
And I guess where I'm taking my readers in my book is just the admission that we lie to ourselves all the time. We all live in very elaborate illusion. So there are two things that are important. First of all, because our brain is wired to trick our center. I mean, you have a psychology background. You know what I'm talking about? Whenever we face something that we don't like, we go into defense mechanisms. These are elaborate ways of creating stories that make us feel better. Our memories are usually imperfect. Our impression of the world is imperfect. If we talk about particular activating system in the sense that it singles out the things that we focus on, these are all illusions. We don't live in a real world. Every single one of us has our own version of these illusions. So why am I talking about that? For two reasons. Reason number one is that you may be wrong.
Any single time you may be wrong. And that is okay. Because that admission that you may be wrong is the door that you need to open for you to change. If we can't admit the simple fact that any moment of time I may be wrong, we're denying ourselves any opportunity of growth and transformation. Because you can't grow if you think that you're right. You're not going to change if you are going to wait to be broken and to change because you're so set in what you believe. And the other thing which I don't talk a lot about is that if it's an illusion, you might as well tell yourself the kind of lie story as long as you are aware that this is just your story.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:27:02] Yeah. I feel like there are definitely intersections with that and self-worth. Because I think one of the things, one of the reasons it's hard for people to acknowledge that they could be wrong about something is because it feels like I'm only worthy if I'm always right and being wrong. I mean, even saying being wrong is sort of challenging, right? So it's saying getting something wrong is probably a better way to kind of phrase it. So it separates from who you are. You can get things wrong and still be worthy, right? Like worthiness is not dependent on knowing everything or getting everything right. But it often feels that way, right? I've got to know everything. I've got to get everything right in order to be worthy. And so if you are telling me I'm wrong, or if I were to consider or be curious that something might be different than the way I understand it or the way I see it, that's a threat to me and my sense of self-worth. And I think we also are now in a society that is very quick to say you are wrong. And if you are wrong, you're bad. You're thrown away.
And there's really very little room in the way we have public discourse for I made a mistake, I didn't understand that. After I learned more, I realized that, right? Like it's flip-flopping. It's how could you, it's, right? There's just really extreme responses and really quick conclusions. And it makes it hard, I think, especially in the public sphere to acknowledge, I don't know, I don't understand. I misunderstood. I got that wrong, right? It's really hard to do that. And so I think what you're talking about is so important, right? Because that's actually how we can be in healthy relationship, right? Because if anybody's tried to be in a healthy relationship and you're never willing to admit like, hey, I got that wrong, or I made a mistake, the relationship is going to be pretty challenging. So we need practice doing that. And knowing that that doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you unworthy, it doesn't make you mean that you need to be punished, right? Kind of like what we were saying before. It's just an opportunity as you're saying, for growth, for development, for progress, for evolution.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:29:18] I think that you can't love yourself if you don't know who you are, right? Who are you loving then? That's the reason why I go into honesty in the first place. And yes, honesty is important for a relationship. And that's why I said I'm talking about self-honesty. Your relationship with yourself is the most important relationship. It's the one that's going to be a deciding relationship. I believe that your relationship with the world is usually just a reflection of your relationship with yourself. So if our society is very quick to point out that someone is wrong, to cancel them, to be extreme about people's mistakes, to be unforgiving, it's only a reflection that most of us, the members of that society are unforgiving with ourselves. And that's why we express it like that in the outside world. So you have to know who you are planning to love, and most of us don't know that person. There is another interesting phenomenon when people fall in love, they say that we all have subconscious list of things that we look for in our ideal partner.
Some of us don't have it in the subconscious, some of us have it actually written out that is what consciousness is. And when you fall in love, those things are being checked off. And in that period of falling in love, you ignore the red flags and you focus on the things which are right. And of course, hormones are helping you along the process or whatever chemistry is within you. So what happens is that we fall in love with an idea, not a real person because we don't see the real person. We're not ready to see the real person. And of course, when the chemicals in our body subside and we start seeing the partner the way they are, we actually see the real person. And then we have a choice. We either keep loving the real person or we get disillusioned to be out of love and we break up. So what happens with humans and their self-love is that we are ready to love an ideal version of ourselves.
We all have mainly subconsciously that picture of what it means to be the better version of me, the perfect me, the highest version of me, whatever you like to call it. And we're willing and ready to love that person. And the moment the real me doesn't correspond the perfect me, I have the same choice. Am I going to love the real me the way I am despite not being that ideal? Or am I going to get disillusioned and unlove myself? That's why I think honesty is so important because my experience is that most of us only understand self-love in connection to the perfect version of themselves. And they're not ready to love themselves before they're that perfect version, because they're not even aware of who that real person really is.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:10] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think about, I think the word integration comes to mind because I do think there are people who tend to sort of believe that they are already that idealized person who's perfect and doesn't need to grow and has everything together and gets everything right. And everybody else is wrong, and they're right, right? Sometimes that looks like victimhood. Like it's never my fault. It's always everybody else's fault if something happens in my life that I don't like, right?
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:32:39] Yeah.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:32:40] There's like no responsibility. Sometimes that looks like grandiosity which we have some examples of that in famous people. But sometimes it looks like I'm the worst person in the world without any acknowledgement of your wonderful qualities and the wonderful things you're contributing, right? And so I think that often when people think honesty, they're thinking, well, I just got to be real with myself, and like, I got to be real with people and tell me about, right? Like, it's this critical thing again, which you're not saying. It's like, okay, well how do you have an integrated view? Like here are my strengths, here are where I shine in the world and I help people and I make an impact. And here's where I kind of struggle. Here's where I can be a bit selfish or self-involved. Or here's where I overlook other people, blah, blah, blah. Or here's where I tend to run late, or whatever, right?
And it's an integrated view that is honest. And it's holding space for all of it, right? Like celebrating the wonderful things and acknowledging and giving grace for the challenging things, right? And that's to me what honesty is and what an honest look at yourself is. It's not, here are all the problems with me and we're just going to focus on that and ignore the bad. Because we also know you gave the example of relationship. Like, people can do that in relationships. That's also not great, right? You're going to go down a road of like the end of the relationship if all you can find are the flaws in your partner, right? Versus like, yeah, this stuff gets on my nerves and this stuff is amazing and so yeah, I think of sort of this integration piece.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:34:19] I think that a very important thing about honesty to remember is that honesty without kindness is mean. And today I saw another funny social media meme where the Joker from Batman was saying that I will probably butcher it, but the main message was that he's just being honest and nobody likes him for that. Well, he's not being honest. He is delusional and he presents his version of truth as honesty. In reality, it might be just his delusion. That's why I'm talking about honesty and truth. I'm not the one to profess truth. I do not know what's truth, what's true for me might be not true for someone else, what true for someone else might not be true for someone else. Again, I'm not talking about moral or ethical values of course. But the thing about self-honesty is you were bringing those other examples of people who are very successful and who think that they are better than the others.
All I see is pain, unfortunately. Because a lot of the times we're putting up a brave face, we're putting down other people. It's a lot of the times, all of these reactions are reactions out of pain. In psychology, there is this it's one of the defenses reaction formation or projection where you are either creating a reaction which you would like to feel and not actually feeling it, or you project something which you maybe are experiencing on other people. This is a deception. And a lot of people are not even aware that they're deceiving themselves. That's the tragedy of it. They keep being miserable. I'll bring an example from my own industry because this is what I know but we have this idea of enlightened zen person who is love and kindness and peace for everyone, but achieving love for everyone is almost unattainable for a mere mortal human being.
So what happens is that if they meet a person that they, for whatever reason, subconsciously don't like, they're never going to admit that. And you know that if you don't admit your natural emotions, they're not going to disappear. You're going to bottle them and they're going to explode when they're least expected. Or there will be emotional leakage will be have behaving passive aggressive. There are a lot of beautiful people who are trying so hard to be better versions of themselves, that they're not realizing how much they're traumatizing themselves by not allowing themselves to be imperfect.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:36:52] I think this is why I'm drawn to spiritual teachers who acknowledge that they get annoyed, that people are annoying, that things aren't perfect. Like I think of Pema Chodron, I don't know if you're familiar with her. She has this quote, which is like my favorite quote, and I might not get it right, but it's basically, right now, can you make an unconditional relationship with yourself just at the height you are, the weight you are, your current burden of pain, your level of intelligence. Can you make an unconditional relationship with that? And I love that. And I feel like this speaks to what you're saying, which is you're not going to be perfect, like, can you unconditionally be in relationship and be in healthy loving relationship with yourself as you are right now, right? Being honest about like, this is where your body is.
This is where your pain is, right? Maybe you're having pain in your body, maybe you're having emotional pain. Like this is where you are right now. And can you be in unconditional relationship with that? Not running away, not abandoning yourself, not saying, Hey, I'll treat myself well when this is over, I lose weight. I look like this, right? But like, I'm honestly looking at myself and I'm saying I show up for myself right now. And I think the irony is, maybe it's not the irony. I think it's what you said earlier, which is we project into the world, we ask of the world what we need for ourselves. We ask other people to love us unconditionally. We say, I want a partner who loves me no matter what loves me in my messiness, loves me in all of my stuff.
And yet we don't offer that to ourselves. And so the challenge is like, how do you start offering that to yourself? And I think a big way in is as you're talking about, which is with your emotions. Like, can you even start by acknowledging and being honest and making room for the range of feelings that you have on any given day in any given week, right? Like, are you requiring yourself to always be happy, right? Or always be at peace, right? Which you can do with this like spiritual enlightenment, I'm never upset versus like, yeah, that pissed me off. And that doesn't mean you're going to react and do something aggressive, but just even acknowledging like, that made me really angry. And I feel that in my chest and I feel it in my body, and I'm going to give myself room and space for that because that's human and that's honest.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:39:21] Yeah. I think sometimes people are afraid of their emotions because they believe that they identify themselves with emotions. They don't say, I feel anger. They say I'm angry. And that like the more you feel it, the more you realize, oh, I'm an angry person, and they start wearing it as their own adjective. That's what I'm. If we just understand a very simple thing, you can feel an emotion but you don't have to act out of whatever you're feeling. You can feel anger, you can feel rage, you can feel even revenge. All these acknowledge, accept them. Ask that emotion. What is it telling me? And then choose to act out your values not out of what you're feeling. If we would follow that simple thing. It's science. It's not even personal growth or spirituality. It's science. If we were just taught that simple thing, acknowledge your emotion, allow your emotion, but just choose not to act on them. Life would be much easier. And I totally agree. It's emotions where it all starts.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:40:22] Yeah.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:40:23] We feel something, we feel that it's inappropriate and we start coming up with stories in our head so that we feel better about it. Sometimes you are supposed to feel happy and you're not. And then this spiritual friend tells you like, oh, how dare you be upset. Look, there are people who are way more miserable than you. And you're like, how dare I feel this, one thing I can tell you, you cannot shame yourself out of being you. It just doesn't work like this. And I want to take it further and I'll just drop it there. We won't probably go there in that conversation, but I believe that not only can you learn to love and accept yourself the way you're, but if you actually challenge yourself a little bit, you might find strength in those things that make you cringe and feel ashamed. You might find that your biggest value lies in the things that you are afraid of.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:41:16] We're so aligned on these things, right? There are so many things you've said here. I'm like, yes. Like this. I try to say that, right? Like, your biggest relationship is your relationship with yourself. That's the foundation. That's the most important one. You said that earlier, right? Like acknowledging your emotions, accepting your emotions, and then acting out of your values. This is the core of what I try to help people with, right? Because I think starting from when you're little, you told stop crying, don't do that, right? Like your emotions are squashed partly because the adults in our lives didn't know how to deal with their emotions. And so they didn't know how to make space for your emotions. And then we sort of just have these cycles of people who don't know how to sit with, breathe with, move through their emotions, right? So it feels like the only way to deal with anger is to punch someone. And I'm not allowed to punch people and I realize that that's not the best response. So I better bottle stuff, right? Instead of like, okay, could you go on a run? Could you, you know what I mean? Could you move, could you dance? Could you yell, right? Can you move?
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:42:22] Make a joke out of it.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:42:25] Yeah. Right. Laugh at the ridiculousness of it, right? Like, how do you move through feelings? How do you sit with them? Because often I know when I work with clients, it's often I feel I'm going to be overwhelmed and overtaken by my emotion, it will never go away. So I cannot let it be there. And I either need to think my way out of it or push it out. And it's like, if you learn to sit with your emotions, you'll learn that they always pass.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:42:50] Yeah.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:42:51] Always, always, always. And you'll always make it through. So I'm so aligned with all of that. And now I forgot the last thing I was going to say. That was related to what you were pointing out.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:43:03] Can I point to another analogy?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:43:04] Yes.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:43:05] In our industry, one of the biggest curses is the idea that you have to not feel the so-called negative things. It's my term It's not official yet. I call it emotional analgesia. And why I'm saying that there is a condition which is called congenital analgesia, where a person doesn't feel physical pain, and physical pain is given to your body so that you get to pay attention where it needs healing or protecting. Very primitive example, you touch fire, you feel physical pain, you remove your hand so that it doesn't burn. People who have congenital analgesia don't survive to adulthood. Their body deteriorate and break and-
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:43:50] Because they don't know when to stop.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:43:52] Because they don't feel the pain physically. And emotions are given to us for the same exact reason. To draw attention to those parts of our life that need fixing, healing, first aid.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:44:07] Yes.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:44:08] And the moment you hear the information that emotion carries, it's done its role, it's free to go.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:44:13] Right.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:44:14] So what I think the society does is trying to instill this emotional analgesia rather than just being chill with the emotions.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:44:23] Right. Like they come-.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:44:25] What about the human experience?
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:44:26] Yes. And I think, it's so powerful that you're saying that. And I also remembered what my other point was going to be, that I wanted to highlight what you said, but because I mean, if you take what you just said then it's not a coincidence, right? That we are in a world now where mental illness is higher than it has ever been, right? Because we live in a society that's evoking all of these things, right? This anger, this frustration, these feelings of injustice, this hurt, this disconnection, and then saying, well, that's a personal problem. Deal with it behind the doors of therapy. And therapy is great, and it's incredibly helpful. And it's, well, that must be your problem. You deal with that. There's something wrong with you, right? Like that's sort of the narrative that then makes people.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:45:09] And don't bring it into relationship, by the way. Fix yourself before you go into any relationship, fix yourself.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:45:14] Exactly. And so then it's like people are carrying the burden of these societal and systemic challenges, the emotions that are not given the space to process through. They're not taught or able to, feel like they're able to do that. And then shamed for having those feelings and told to go in a therapy room and deal with it by yourself. And it's like, this is unhealthy, right? And we're seeing the evidence of it everywhere. The other thing that I wanted to touch on, which I love that you said was if we look at the parts of ourselves that we've shamed and hidden, we may find that our biggest strength is there. And that is, I am totally in agreement with that. I agree. It's like, how can you find the strength hidden in this part of you that you have decided, probably because society told you it's bad, it's wrong, it's different, hide it, right?
And there's usually so much power there. And I love, I think of that as a really, a powerful pathway to self-acceptance is like, let's excavate that. Open the closet, bring it out in the open, let's look at it. And let's challenge the story that you were told, maybe when you were little that because you were so boisterous or loud or this or that, or you couldn't focus or, I'm saying that in quotes or whatever. It was like, let's challenge that idea that that meant something was wrong with you. And let's find the power and the strength in those parts of you that you've tried to hide away.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:46:49] I have one, a little side note. I think that fixing implies brokenness. And very often we come to therapy or to personal growth to fix something. But people are not broken well, except one. Sorry, I'm being political right now. But people are mostly not broken. Healing implies human experience. So if you could replace fixing yourself with healing, that will actually give you permission to look at yourself. Not as broken or wrong, but just this person who has had human experience.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:47:28] Yes. Yes.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:47:29] Maybe needs healing because you have a few scratches and dents and bruises. And when it comes to finding strength in the things that you have been ashamed of, it's a question of chicken and egg for me right now. But maybe if I give it more thought, it'll be more clear. I think that for you to be able to find strength in your weaknesses on things that you were ashamed of, I call them dragons These are the creatures which live in the darkest corners of your dungeon that you're afraid to look at. So in order to find strength in your dragons, I think you need to be honest with yourself and you need to understand yourself and need to know your values. And I'll give a very practical example to substantiate why I'm seeing that. I'm a very bizarre author, writer, and speaker.
And I have done training with the best speakers in the world, the best teachers of speakers in the world. Of course, I write for a long time and I've helped publish so many authors. And when I go against traditions, sometimes it's not because I'm naturally obstinate, which I'm as well, it's because I can't sell my soul to the devil and I can't go against my values. So when somebody sometimes asks me to do things in a certain way, perform on stage in a certain way, write my book in a certain way, I may rebel, but I will rebel if my explanation to that is that I can't do that because it goes against my values. I feel that I would not be myself. And if my value is authenticity and being true to myself, having peace with myself then I won't do certain things.
And I'm willing to sacrifice whatever it means. But most of the times people actually respect that. So, very simple example, when I wrote my book to be self-published because I write about authenticity. And I thought I can't go for traditional publisher because they'll force me. And I've co-authored books. I know how the process works. How can I write a book about being you under very strict rules? And then when I finished the book, I realized I wanted to be in New York Times Best Seller List. So for that, I have to work with the traditional publisher. So I found a traditional publisher and we started working together and their first comment was, can you please write a proper introduction to your book? I said, you mean like I will write that in this book you're going to learn this, this and this and this. And they're like, yes. I said, no, I can't. And they asked me why and I said because, in my opinion, a journey of transformation or a journey back to you is a journey. And I'm not going to give you spoilers. And also I don't even know where this journey is going. You imagine if you open Lord of the Rings and the introduction to the book you are being told that the Fellowship is going to fall apart in the end of the book. My publisher laughed and said, can you at least write in your introduction why you are not writing proper introduction? And for me, it was organic with how I feel. What I feel about my book. And I said, yes, that I can.
So you see, it's not just about recognizing that you are odd and unacceptable, but seeing the value in that. Only when you see the value in that, when that value is your human value in life, then you'll find the strengths to just say, guys, this is what I am. Take it.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:50:58] Yeah. I love that example because that has the courage piece. It has the honesty piece and the self-kindness, which I think is so important because the world is not always kind when we show the parts of ourselves that don't fit in, right? And we need to be kind to ourselves to have the courage to do that, right? To be kind to yourselves, to say, okay, like if this means I don't get this publishing deal, I'm still going to be here for myself. I'm not going to beat myself up. I'm going to know I did this because of my values, I'm going to trust, right? I will still end up on the New York Times Bestselling List, or I'll find the right publisher or whatever, and I'm going to be kind to myself and gracious to myself in the process, right? I think that sort of ties in sort of these themes that you touch on.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:51:50] But I might have also decided that getting published is important and then had two values to decide between what is more important to me, to push this through, or to go with the publisher. There are no simple solutions in life. There is no recipe, there is no do this and do that. I think you have to be constantly conscious of the essence of the phenomena and the phenomena is you.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:52:14] Right. Well, and I think I frame that as like the process, right? Like versus the outcome and thinking there is a right answer because there often isn't one right answer, right? Like, it's usually that you need a process for figuring out what is right for you with this decision, right? Which value are you going to prioritize if they're at odds right now? And how do you tune into your intuition to your internal wisdom? How do you reflect, what's your process for tuning in, for listening for all of that to help you make the decision that feels aligned, that feels authentic, that feels right, versus expecting that there is one perfect answer out there. Someone else has it. Or you have to, you know what I mean? It's like, what's the process of engaging with this challenge or this question? And I think that's what is helpful for people versus as you're saying, like, just check these boxes or just like, this is always the right answer or, whatever. And I think often people when they're struggling with making decision, it's because they feel like there is a right answer and a wrong answer. And usually it's the big questions in life, and they don't have a right or a wrong answer. They just have sort of the best or the most aligned answer for you at this time in your life, given the circumstances.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:53:39] And not only is there the right answer, if you don't pick the right answer, you are screwed. That's the biggest problem.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:53:45] Right? That's the fear. That's the fear. Exactly. When usually you're not, right? Maybe that opportunity doesn't work out and there's infinite possibilities and opportunities and roads and journeys and all of those things. And so I think that's also, there's sort of this piece that we've maybe not touched on explicitly. And I'll say this, we could probably talk for another hour. We have to wrap up, but it's sort of this self-trust, right? And I think if you have processes, if you love yourself, part of that is trusting yourself, right? If we're in a loving, committed relationship, the hope, if it's healthy, is that we trust our partner, right? And so it's like, can you trust yourself, right? Can you trust that you're going to move through this world and this life in a way that is aligned and authentic and that if you miss the mark, which we all do sometimes, that you'll be able to come back, right? That you'll be able to forge a new path, right? And that it doesn't need to be perfect, but you can trust the process, trust yourself in the midst of that.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:54:50] Yeah. I agree. And for me, I guess trust has a lot to do with kindness with that second piece that we were talking about so much. And with the idea that you have to learn to love yourself before you're perfect. Can you love yourself when you're still you the way you're, can you love yourself when you finally find the courage, to be honest with yourself and you discover you are much further away from what you think you should be? Can you love yourself when you fail miserably? When you are not the best version of yourself. Because when you say, yes, I can, then you'll find the courage to go and actually start doing things.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:55:28] Yes. I love that. I love that as a note to end on. It's the perfect last kind of words and things for people to take away from our conversation today. I'd love for you to just share about your book. When people can kind of expect to see it, what the title is, how to find you and connect with you so that they can follow you. And be sure to know when your book comes out.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:55:55] So my book comes out in 2023 because it's a long process. It's ready though, it's called Becoming Flawesome. And in the book I do talk about finding path back to you. It is not an autobiography. It's actually a very philosophical book in which I ask a lot of question. And it's a journey. I don't prescribe, I don't teach, I don't believe in that. What I believe in is in asking yourself questions and in finding courage and honesty and kindness to have this conversation without masks, without facades, without lying to yourself. And I think it's an interesting and a little bit uncomfortable book. You can find it under https://kristinamand.com/book. But depending on whenever this podcast is going to come out, there will be either presales page or there will be a waiting list. It's the same page anyway. Once we are ready to start presales, then we'll go into that. And I can't wait for that. I have been waiting for this day. It's my baby coming out.
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:57:06] That's exciting. Well, I'm excited to read it and again, I'm so grateful for you coming on to the podcast. We always have such dynamic and interesting conversation, and so I appreciate you and your energy and your thoughtfulness and thank you.
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani [00:57:21] Thank you so much for having me again. It's such a pleasure.
[cheerful music starts]
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:57:28] Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode. You can also follow me on social media at Dr. Adia Gooden. If you loved the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
[cheerful music ends]
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
Cali by Wataboi https://soundcloud.com/wataboi
Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0
Music promoted by FDL Music https://youtu.be/ZdQI7WQWi_g
Can you love yourself when you are not the best version of yourself?
In this episode of Unconditionally Worthy, I welcome Kristina Mand-Lakhiani, an international speaker, entrepreneur, artist, and author. Kristina recently published her new book, Becoming Flawesome: The Key to Living an Imperfectly Authentic Life, which we’re very excited about!
Listen in as Kristina and I talk about what it takes to courageously embrace your flaws, love yourself, and be honest and kind with yourself. She shares a few powerful ways you can be kinder and more honest with yourself so you can pursue and achieve what you want with less resistance and more courage. Ultimately, her insights will help you live an authentic life while embracing all of your imperfections.
Ready to dive in?
If you fail at self-care rituals, do you still love yourself?
If you haven’t been to the gym in two weeks, do you still love yourself?
If you eat that decadent dessert you’ve been avoiding, do you still love yourself?
Let’s not confuse self-care rituals, like exercise or eating a healthy meal, with self-love. Acts of self-care are things that can help you get to a place where you feel self-love, but self-love is something much greater.
“Yes, if you love yourself, you generally tend to take good care of yourself. That’s a symptom of you loving yourself… but just because you take care of yourself, doesn’t necessarily mean that you love yourself.”
- Kristina Mand-Lakhiani
Self-love is being honest with yourself. Self-love is being kind to yourself. Self-love is being compassionate with yourself during your hardest, most vulnerable moments. Self-love is not abandoning yourself or criticizing yourself when you mess up or do something cringey. Self-love is being courageous and embracing your flaws.
If you didn’t get the job or promotion you worked so hard for, do you still love yourself?
Can you love yourself when you are not the best version of yourself?
Can you love yourself when you fail miserably?
In Kristina’s new book, Becoming Flawesome, she focuses on kindness, honesty, and courage as the pillars of embracing your flaws and loving yourself unconditionally. The book illustrates the idea that if you want to boldly move forward in life and feel content and fulfilled, you need to be kind and honest with yourself. You need to love yourself courageously.
So, how do we do this?
6 Ways to Be Honest and Kind With Yourself:
Stop lying to yourself and stop deceiving yourself. We’re often not aware of what we’re lying to ourselves about, but we do it all the time. Start with admitting that you may be wrong at any given time. You can be wrong and still be worthy.
Stop punishing yourself. Punishment doesn’t foster love and motivation, only fear and discouragement. Self-punishment isn’t a sustainable way to show up for yourself and share your gifts.
Spend time getting to know who you are. The more you know who you are, the more you can be honest with yourself and love yourself because you will have spent time connecting to your truth.
Acknowledge the challenges you’ve gone through (and are currently going through) and how difficult they actually are. You don’t always have to put on a brave face or downplay your hardships.
Allow yourself to be imperfect and embrace your flaws. Perfection doesn’t exist and flaws do, so accepting that will help you be honest and kind with yourself just as you are.
Remember that honesty without kindness is mean.
“You cannot shame yourself out of being you… Not only can you learn to love and accept yourself the way you are, but if you actually challenge yourself a little bit, you might find strength in those things that make you cringe and feel ashamed. You might find that your biggest value lies in the things thatyou are afraid of.”
- Kristina Mand-Lakhiani
Want to take a peek inside of the book before you buy? Click here to read a free chapter!
To take the Becoming Flawesome quiz, click here.
To order Becoming Flawesome: The Key to Living an Imperfectly Authentic Life, click here.
Other Resources Mentioned:
Listen to Ep 39 with Kristina Mand-Lakhiani: https://dradiagooden.com/episodearchive/39
About Kristina Mand-Lakhiani (she/her):
Kristina Mand-Lakhiani is an entrepreneur, international speaker, artist, and author. She has been engaging in the personal transformation industry for over 15 years, collaborating and playing with leading thinkers and teachers in consciousness, relationships, human performance, and life optimization.
Kristina started her career working for the government of Estonia, where she was born and raised, before she joined the non-profit sector and worked for organizations such as the United Nations, Oxfam, and AIESEC. In 2003, Kristina co-founded Mindvalley — a global school that delivers transformational education for all ages.
Kristina is the author of Live By Your Own Rules, a 30-day optimal learning quest designed for transformation to help you identify, understand, and accept all the dimensions of your authentic self so that you can live an extraordinary life and make happiness a regular practice.
To connect further with Kristina Mand-Lakhiani:
Visit her website: https://kristinamand.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kristinamand
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana.
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