Healing Intergenerational Trauma with Dr. Mariel Buqué
— EPISODE 96 —
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[cheerful music starts]
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:00:21] Welcome to the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. In this podcast, I will guide you on your journey to connect with the true source of your self-worth. Each week we'll discuss barriers to unconditional self-worth, the connection between self-worth and relationships, self-worth practices you can apply to your life. And how to use self-worth as a foundation for living courageously. I'm your host, Dr. Adia Gooden, a licensed clinical psychologist, dance enthusiast, and a dark chocolate lover who believes deeply that you are worthy unconditionally.
UWP Podcast Ep #96 with Dr. Mariel Buqué Transcript
How to Heal Intergenerational Trauma
Adia Gooden (00:07.894)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. I am so honored to have today's guest on the episode. It's Dr. Mariel Buqué She is a psychologist. She has hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram. She talks about healing intergenerational trauma. And she is...
Spoken at very large companies and on the Today show and CNN and lots of places. And so I am so grateful that she took the time out to talk with me and to share her wisdom and insights with you. So we talk about intergenerational trauma and intergenerational healing and intergenerational strength. We talk about what all of those things are. And Dr. Mariel really shares insights and some practices that you can start to use.
in your own life to heal intergenerational trauma. It's a really thoughtful, insightful, and empowering episode. So I know you're gonna wanna listen in. I do wanna just let you know, we mentioned sort of at the beginning that there's a connection between imposter syndrome and self-worth. And I wanna remind you that I actually have a free e-guide on the connection between imposter syndrome and self-worth.
and I share a really powerful strategy to help you overcome imposter syndrome and low self-worth. So if you wanna sign up and get that e-guide, you can go to dradiagooden.com / slash imposter syndrome, that'll be linked in the show notes. And just a quick reminder, Dr. Mariel's book is coming out at the beginning of January, it's called Break the Cycle. So be sure to pre-order that, we'll also share the links for that. It's gonna be a powerful and healing book. Okay, let's get into the show.
Adia Gooden (00:05.663)
I am really excited and honored to have Mariel Buqué Dr. Mariel Buqué on the podcast today. Dr. Mariel is a Columbia University-trained psychologist, intergenerational trauma expert, and author of Break the Cycle, a book that focuses on healing wounds of intergenerational trauma. She has been featured on major media outlets, including The Today Show.
CNN, The Real, and ABC News. And you can find her work at www.DrMarielBouquet.com. And if you've been hanging out on the internet streets, you've probably seen her work on Instagram. She shares the tea and shares so many amazing tips, therapeutic tips and strategies and insights. She has hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram, which is how I first
encountered her. And so I'm really excited for her to be here to share her deep wisdom with us today. Welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (01:11.426)
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for that beautiful, warm introduction too.
Adia Gooden (01:16.575)
You're very welcome. Well, I like to say that I start these conversations by diving into the deep end and asking my guests to tell us a little bit about their own self-worth story. So I'm hoping that you can share a bit about your journey.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (01:29.494)
Mm-hmm.
Oh, yes. My goodness, I think we all have a story for sure. I feel like I have a few in me, but one that is deeply, deeply prominent in my life and one that I continue to work on, because it's an ever evolving process, is the journey of having experienced myself as not belonging and succumbing to.
um, the lie of the intergenerational lie of imposter syndrome, which is, uh, you know, just us believing that in essence, we don't belong in certain spaces that were typically, uh, people that look like us have not, you know, been prominent in because of outcasting or because we have been intergenerationally, um, uh, kept out of spaces or kept out of opportunities. And.
Adia Gooden (02:06.923)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (02:30.423)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (02:31.618)
That lie became very internalized and ingrained in me when I was in grad school. I think it was perhaps in me for a very long time, just being someone who is, it holds various identities that are at the margins. I am black, I'm Latina, I'm a woman, right? And I think also I come from a very deeply impoverished, economically impoverished background, so I grew up very poor.
Adia Gooden (02:59.552)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (02:59.73)
I was actually even poor for the poor neighborhood that I grew up in. And so the experience of then transitioning into particularly Columbia University where, you know, it's a very elitist classist, has a lot of racial undertones like within the institution, the practices of people, the language that people use towards you when you're visibly someone who they can identify as.
Adia Gooden (03:03.199)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (03:24.511)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (03:29.434)
being in the margins, the daily onslaughts of commentary and institutional inequities that worked in my disfavor became so heavy for me in that period of time. I've always felt some element of, oh, as a person that grew up poor, just feeling a little bit like
Adia Gooden (03:38.411)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (03:57.374)
lesser than, like there was always some hints of it, but I don't believe they came as pronounced as when I was in these very elite spaces and all of a sudden I was like, oh, I'm different. Oh, they see me as different. Oh, they see me as different, but like not as good as them different. And the grief that comes with that was very profound.
Adia Gooden (04:01.035)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (04:07.507)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (04:11.467)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (04:17.408)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (04:26.526)
And I say grief very intentionally because there's sadness, there's depression, there's anger, there's bargaining and reconciliation. It's literally a grief stage. And now, you know, after first externalizing the problem, understanding that the problem is them not me.
Adia Gooden (04:29.12)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (04:38.743)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Adia Gooden (04:50.75)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (04:51.226)
understanding that I do belong in that perhaps even more so because I have within me the stories of my communities that deserve to have spaces in these elite or elitist institutions and understanding that the lie was just an internalized belief and not a reality has been an important
Adia Gooden (05:13.675)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (05:16.046)
incredibly important part of my journey, one that I step into wholeheartedly to this day. And even when I have to like, let's say, you know, the other day I presented at Google, right? And I went to Google understanding that I, and Googlers definitely make me feel this way and help me to feel this way. They're very, very kind to me, but that I belong there and I belong to it in being able to.
Adia Gooden (05:26.048)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (05:44.034)
provide information to high level institutions and I can step into that understanding my worth and understanding the worth of the work that I bring into the spaces that I now inhabit.
Adia Gooden (05:58.083)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think what you're sharing is so powerful and is going to resonate with so many people listening, right? How these messages, implicit and explicit about where we belong, if we're good enough, if we're smart enough, all of those things can become internalized. And I think what you said about externalizing them is such an important part of the journey, right? Like being very clear, this is the system's issue, this is that person's issue and I'm going to have to deal with it, right?
We may still have to deal with it if we're in that space, if we're navigating that system, but that doesn't mean that we are the problem. And so often the message is, you're the problem, you need to change, you need to be different. You're not navigating these unwritten rules, these unwritten expectations, the way that nobody told you, right? The way we expect. And so that must mean that you can't, you know.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (06:35.868)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (06:40.403)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (06:47.931)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (06:52.607)
be up to the standard. It's actually interesting, right before we jumped on this call, I was looking at the fact that the Supreme Court just banned affirmative action, said that schools can no longer take into account race when they're doing admissions. And I think part of that narrative against affirmative action is people who are unqualified, people who are at the margins, who have experienced depression, who are often people of color.
who are unqualified are taking the spots of the qualified white applicants, and that's not fair, right? And that they're being gifted admissions, and it's just because of diversity initiatives, and all of these narratives, right? Which inherently are, there's something not good enough about you. And so I can imagine and understand why getting to, getting to this PhD program.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (07:28.626)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (07:34.256)
Mm.
Adia Gooden (07:47.867)
why sort of the feeling of like, oh, people see me as maybe I'm a great student or I'm smart or I'm hard work. And then realizing that wasn't how they saw you, or that wasn't how they treated you. And that just being a hard worker and just being smart wasn't going to overcome those biases. I can see I'm sort of making leaps here, but how that would trigger a lot of grief and like, oh, okay, this, this
thing I thought I was navigating, it can't be navigated that way. This game I thought I could win by, you know, doing all the right things and following all the rules and whatever. I can't win that way.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (08:16.578)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (08:26.234)
Absolutely. You know, it actually reminded me of the very first day that I was indeed a doctoral student at Columbia University. I remember this one girl, a white woman. She felt so deeply threatened by my presence in the classroom that she said out loud,
Well, we all know why you're here. It's to meet a quota. And I remember my white professor who was actually a really like she was very supportive, but she just could not navigate the situation. She just didn't know how to, you know, or perhaps he wasn't willing or courageous enough to navigate it on my behalf. But I recall, you know,
Adia Gooden (09:06.302)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (09:18.854)
a couple of students, perhaps in their own white guilt, they approached me after class and they were like, are you okay? What she said was not okay. And just really trying to pacify the situation. I remember feeling like, you know, it's nice to have some people that are allies in community, right? And also having to really sit with the...
the anger that I felt that someone could think that my merit didn't hold. And that despite the fact that I had straight A's in my master's program, that I also was the president of the Psychological Association for Students. And that I had an enormous, like an incredible acumen, including being published as a master's student, which is like, as you know, just very hard, right, to do. And I did the pub, I was the first author, I created the article and I looped my professor in
myself. And so there were so many things that were outliers in the direction of the like the top 1% of applicants and helped me to get into this institution, which I didn't even know what an Ivy League institution was until I arrived. And to be frank, the only reason why I applied to Columbia was because it was just a few minutes away from my family. And I, I being a, you know, Latina immigrant, like I just
Adia Gooden (10:12.608)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (10:18.347)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (10:27.279)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (10:39.302)
it's really hard to break away from family and go to the West Coast or something and study, right? So I just needed to be close by to help. And so, this person tried to exclaim that I was a statistic, that I was just being brought on to fulfill the institutional requisite.
Adia Gooden (10:44.055)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (11:03.826)
and not that I was being brought on because of my capacities. And so, you know, I think that there are implicit messages that we receive that then internalize into a sense of lack of worth. And there are explicit messages, like what she said, that also produce that kind of...
And I definitely had like a chip on my shoulder a little bit after that, because I didn't really know how to navigate it. Now I know better, right? But I think that there is, for a lot of us, we are really stuck in, you know, in these spaces, conversations, institutional practices, laws that disclaim our worth and make it so that we internalize messages that aren't ours to carry.
Adia Gooden (11:51.271)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think when you're sort of talking about how you were probably overqualified, right, what comes to me is that she didn't know any of those things and she didn't care to know them, right? But what I imagine is that her racism was so deep-seated that she couldn't tolerate being in class with someone Black because then that brought down the level and the status of who she was and her getting into Columbia. And
that sort of like, I don't even see you as a full person or student or scholar or anything. I'm not even curious about, oh, what have you done? I mean, and we also, that can also be sort of a microaggression, right? The curiosity of like, how did you, huh, what were you doing before? How did you get in here? Right? Like that's like a softer way that it comes through, which is like, I remember when I was in college, I went to Stanford for undergrad. I was out with one of my
Dr. Mariel Buqué (12:20.435)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (12:26.926)
I think it's been three years.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (12:37.558)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (12:48.703)
high school friends, we both got into Stanford. She was white, I'm black. And people in high school had said that I only got into Stanford because I was black. So that's one story. But we were at Stanford. We're very similar shape, size, build. We're across the street in like a store and this older white woman came up to us and said specifically to me, are you an athlete? Because it was the only way that she could make sense of me, a black girl.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (13:11.723)
Oh.
Adia Gooden (13:17.771)
being a student at Stanford, I had to be an athlete. It could not be based on my, and I'm not an athlete, right? Like it couldn't be based on, it would be fine if I was, but it was not because of my intellectual acumen. It must have been because of my physical, right? Like strength, like that's the only way that we could make sense of us, right? Like either, oh quotas, diversity initiatives, or, you know, athletics, right? Like that's the only way that it's.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (13:18.37)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (13:24.391)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (13:30.934)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (13:45.311)
that we're allowed to be in these spaces, not for who we are, what we bring, what insights we have to offer. And I think that this process of like externalizing it, it does hurt, especially when you've been under the idea that they're, right, the narrative around life in the US is that it's equitable and it's fair and it's a meritocracy and it's just, and you just work hard and you do well.
And then you get to a point where you're sort of really up against the fact that that is not true. And, you know, especially if you are a person of color, if you, you know, have origins from another country, if you have experienced poverty, right, like, especially when you have those sort of identities that, you know, there's lots of, you know, communication that, again, like you're saying, you don't belong here. Or how did you get in here?
Dr. Mariel Buqué (14:18.792)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (14:42.711)
What happened to allow that?
Dr. Mariel Buqué (14:47.57)
Yes, that is such an important point. Yeah, so I think that, you know, the pervasiveness of how cultural messages get filtered through a society and remain there.
Adia Gooden (14:57.719)
It's okay.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (15:15.462)
It's like, it's even one of the things that I talk about in reference to my work around intergenerational healing. Intergenerational healing isn't just us healing from the generational ties that we have to trauma within our families, but also within our communities. There are systemic influences that promote, maybe create and promote the traumas that then get filtered into our homes. There are collective traumas that groups of people.
Adia Gooden (15:31.255)
Mm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (15:45.851)
as we know, groups of people specifically that have had historical traumas, but also you know that remain in identities that are marginalized, that there are specific experiences that are like concretized in those communities that also tie into how we metabolize trauma. And so there's a lot that we also have to you know hold in consideration around the messages that we're internalizing and how those can produce.
Adia Gooden (16:11.959)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (16:13.854)
micro traumas, bigger traumas, like it's all in there. And so for me, you know, this experience of worth, it's important to understand that even when we're like just talking about imposter syndrome, we're not just talking about the internalized perception of self-worth that happens in spaces that are intellectual. When we start to internalize a lack of self-worth,
Adia Gooden (16:16.631)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (16:41.906)
in any dimension of our lives, that starts to disease everything else. We start to feel a lack of self-worth in relationships. We start to feel a lack of self-worth in parenting. We start to feel a lack of self-worth in just how we treat ourselves. And it starts to become the general baseline by which we lead our lives. And that definitely happened to me. I remember at least my second year of my doctoral studies.
Adia Gooden (16:46.999)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (16:52.535)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (17:08.343)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (17:12.11)
I was in a continuous experience where I felt like I had to really battle the idea that I wasn't worthy of one, being in those spaces, but worthy as a human. And that's a really hard thing to sit with. I'm grateful that I have people that love me, particularly my family, but also like
Adia Gooden (17:24.919)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (17:37.106)
I also have sister friends, like people that have loved on me so hard and like been able to mirror to me what they see, that it has allowed me an opportunity to really sit with that truth, even when I wasn't internalizing it just yet. And I even remember like my first year when it was like, I was really like, oh my goodness, I am in a really toxic place. And my mom was like, you know, you have God, your ancestors and your family and people that love you that are here with you.
Adia Gooden (17:41.495)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (18:04.855)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (18:06.042)
every single step of the way, go in there and show them the strength that is present in our lineage. And it was like a moment of generational strength being inculcated in me that allowed me to not only step back into those spaces with full strength and power, generational power, which is like so incredibly mighty because it has layers of power within it, but also to
Adia Gooden (18:08.119)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (18:12.279)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mmm.
Adia Gooden (18:26.231)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (18:28.87)
actually generalize that sense of empowerment and self-worth in all the other areas of my life and step into my self-worth in relationships, amorous relationships, friendships, family relationships, relationships with institutions. It became generalized. The generational strength that I then held on to was the generational strength that carried me through all dimensions of my life.
Adia Gooden (18:49.751)
Hmm, it's so powerful. And I, I agree that sometimes when we are having trouble accessing our sense of worthiness, that being in relationship and community of people who see the truth of who we are and mirror that back to us and remind us and pour into us can be so incredibly helpful and healing. And so I definitely want to kind of have you talk more about generational strength. And I, but I want to start with.
intergenerational trauma. So we've been sort of talking around it. And I'd love for you to share your definition of intergenerational trauma and what are some examples? Like if we could make it tangible for people, what are some examples of how it might show up in someone's life?
Dr. Mariel Buqué (19:20.641)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ha ha.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (19:33.734)
Oh, yes, absolutely. So intergenerational trauma is the only type of trauma that's actually handed down a family line or down communities. And it happens at the intersection of two modes of transmission, which is our biology and our psychology. And from our biology or biological standpoint, we in essence inherit genetic expressions from our parents upon conception when we're conceived that represent
a vulnerability to stress, meaning that if our parents were chronically stressed or in trauma themselves, perhaps they were individuals that were also a part of marginalized communities and they had ongoing chronic stress and trauma in reference to that, eventually their genetic code is actually going to reflect that because they're going to have a number of stress hormones that are going to be flooding their bloodstream on a continuous basis, perhaps even for life.
Adia Gooden (20:05.175)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (20:31.374)
And there's gonna be a number of different ways in which their genetic code is gonna be, in essence transmuting or like representative of a stressed body. Upon conception, they pass on that genetic coding to their children. And so we have the biological element of intergenerational trauma. And then the psychology is basically everything that happens post-conception, even in utero, when we're still in the belly.
And we're developing in the belly. There is already a host of stress hormones that if our parent, you know, that's carrying us has stress in their environment, then there's still those, you know, hormones that are flooding through the bloodstream, reaching the baby in the womb. And then once the baby is born, if there's anything happening in the home, maybe there's domestic abuse, maybe there is poverty, you know, there are a number of things, right? All of those things get translated now as.
the psychological trauma that baby is now experiencing. Once the baby is now developing their own trauma symptoms, meaning that they're either, you know, developing what might look like depression, right? Irritability and chronic irritability and like any mood symptoms, right? And then beyond that, other expressions of trauma, like people pleasing, right? Or...
Adia Gooden (21:56.087)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (21:57.586)
a lack of self-trust or a lack of trust in others, right? Like all of those things that are potentially modeled in the home with a parent that is in trauma themselves, codependency, right? Like all of those things. Then we start to see the continuation or the cycle keeping of intergenerational trauma.
Adia Gooden (22:16.535)
Hmm. I love how clearly, oh no, but that's like a great, that's a great start. I mean, it just feels like you're really clear around like, here are the ways that it happens. And I love that you sort of tie, that you tie in the biological because I do think that that's a big piece that people don't necessarily understand. And I think when there's a lot of blaming and sort of things like that, it's like, yeah, there, there's some pieces here that
Dr. Mariel Buqué (22:17.826)
There was another part of that question. Ha ha ha. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (22:33.379)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (22:44.471)
have happened before you were born, right? Or like happening in utero. And if you think about sort of, I think of the legacy of like black people in the Americas, right? Like if your ancestors were enslaved, but like that is an inherently traumatic and stressful situation, right? And so then that is impacting, right? It's probably impacting generations, not to mention all of the things that have come.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (22:57.843)
Uh huh.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (23:03.414)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (23:11.287)
after slavery or immigration stories, there's lots of things. And so I think sort of just acknowledging that helps us to give ourselves grace, right? Like for the parts that we can't control and the parts that we can't even, like it's not even fair to blame our parents or grandparents for, right? But just like give ourselves grace, give other people grace.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (23:13.102)
Mm-hmm. Or even decorations or something. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (23:22.271)
Yeah.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (23:30.619)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (23:35.991)
And then to kind of think about what are the sort of cycle breakers? What are the things that we can do that we can take responsibility for? Which I know that you talk about in your book and I'm hoping you'll share some of those insights with us today because there are some parts that are like, okay, here, here's the reality, right? Like my ancestors experienced this trauma, my great grandma, my grandma, like all of these people may have experienced this trauma that impacted me and our legacy. And here's where I have agency and choice.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (23:40.984)
Yeah.
Adia Gooden (24:05.175)
to do something different and to break the cycle.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (24:08.946)
Oh, absolutely. I really appreciate the way that you stated that and the ability to capture grace in the journey. That is so critical. I think that for a lot of us, of course, we're going to go through a grief stage when we engage in intergenerational healing work that is actually invited because it is a part of the journey that is necessary. And in my book, I actually helped the reader through a number of different ways in which they can process grief, depending on
Adia Gooden (24:26.519)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (24:38.82)
the place where they are in their intergenerational healing journey around the traumas experienced. Because there are a lot of breakdowns that I do. Because I think we think of intergenerational trauma, and we think of it as like this like, maybe it's oversimplified. When in reality, I offer 12 chapters, because there are 12 areas that we need to explore in reference to this. And.
Adia Gooden (24:47.447)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (25:04.759)
Hmm. Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (25:07.87)
And there is opportunity for grief to take place. And one of the stages of grief of, you know, just a general grief model is the stage of bargaining. And although I don't explicitly say this is what we're doing, I do take the reader through a number of ways in which they can engage in bargaining. And the bargaining stage of grief is in essence like, what can I take? What can I leave? What do I wish to hold on to? What do I wish to let go of?
Adia Gooden (25:32.151)
Mmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (25:36.702)
What is this next stage of me processing the grief that I have going to look like and what can I and what should I still carry with me and what should I put down? And so there's a number of different ways in which I try to help the reader to transition from the baggage, the heavy lifting of the baggage on a continuous basis that they no longer need to lift on behalf of themselves and their
family members and ancestors, but to create a different legacy that is filled with abundance. And abundance can only be created when we let go of the things that are carrying us down. Like you can't reach the surface and come up for air if you have like an anchor on your foot. You have to let go of it and continue to surface.
Adia Gooden (26:08.887)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (26:32.13)
Allow yourself an opportunity to really, you know, reach that place of abundance without being bogged down by the heavy layers that came before you.
Adia Gooden (26:41.239)
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, I love that you sort of help people wade into the complexity of it. And I think it's really compelling that you're talking about inviting grief, because so often, I think the way we frame and think about grief is something you sort of have to go through, or it's like, ah, you know, and we often sort of, you know, I think in our broader society, limit it to someone passed away. And so then you grief.
Right? And you probably, we also don't have a culture around like allowing grief and talking about grief beyond, right? Like the services or something like that. And so I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about why it's important to invite grief in as part of this healing process.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (27:11.032)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (27:31.59)
Oh, great question. It's important to invite grief in because grief is already there. Even when we are deciding that we don't want to invite grief in, in essence, that's still the stage of denial, which is a grief stage.
Adia Gooden (27:38.615)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (27:48.279)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (27:48.318)
So we are already in grief or just prolonging the process of getting to the latter stages of grief, or we can feel lighter and more liberated. So regardless of whether a person has a conscious willingness or not, they are in a grief stage. So it is my duty as a clinician, as a writer, as an author of a healing guide, to offer us the tools to create the transition rather than staying in the
Adia Gooden (28:04.503)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (28:18.872)
trauma tends to default us to. And also to very explicitly say, you are grieving. I even say that in, you know, there is an area that I focus on within the actual book that talks about how we can attend the funeral of the people that are in our lives and are still alive.
Adia Gooden (28:27.095)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (28:40.631)
Hmm.
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (28:44.382)
And in essence, we are attending the funeral of the people that we wish them to be. That's not a real person. There's a whole other human in front of us, let's say a parent, full of complexities, full of ways in which they can produce hurt. They are an imperfect person. They're probably even a person that you have to create healthy distance from, but they are the real person that you see in front of you.
Adia Gooden (28:52.151)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (29:13.758)
rather than this human that didn't have all of those layers that you saw before that you were holding on to. You have to grieve and attend the funeral of the parent that you wish you had, and that will allow you to then step into an understanding of the parent that you truly have and be able to actually wholeheartedly embrace the fact that this is what you've been given. This is the parent that you've been given with the trauma.
Adia Gooden (29:25.175)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (29:41.974)
with the complexities, with the layers. And that can be a very liberating experience for someone when they're no longer holding onto a fantasy of who they wish they could have been parented by.
Adia Gooden (29:53.559)
Hmm. You know, as you say that I'm thinking about my own sort of experience of being in therapy and working through and releasing the fantasy that I had that my parents were perfect. And part of what happened was I thought that they were perfect. And so then I thought I had to be perfect.
And then I also didn't acknowledge the ways in which they didn't parent me in in ways that I needed to be parented or they didn't show their love in ways that I needed to receive it. Right. And so that process of dismantling and often there's along the way, like, I don't talk to you. Like, I'm mad at you. I'm angry. Right. And that that is part of that grief. And then it's the releasing and the as you're saying, it's liberating to grieve that.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (30:21.326)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (30:30.406)
Yeah. Yes.
Adia Gooden (30:43.415)
they are perfect or they have it all together, they're gonna get it exactly right because they are not. And that then allows you to process the hurt and the sadness that it wasn't what you wanted it to be or it wasn't what you needed it to be. And I also think about how that liberated me from the perfectionistic standards that I had, right? Because they were perfect, then I had to be perfect. But then if I could realize they're not perfect and kind of work through that and see them as human,
Dr. Mariel Buqué (30:49.648)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (31:06.038)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (31:13.303)
well then maybe I also have permission to not be perfect, to not always get it right, to not hold myself to that sort of magical standard that I had created in my head.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (31:16.7)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (31:24.522)
Oh, yes. And that's what I mean by liberating, right? Like we can liberate ourselves when we offer ourselves an opportunity to go back into our histories and have a full understanding of the complexities of it all, and then allow ourselves an opportunity to grieve whatever it is that we have been holding on to as far as a fantasy. I myself have had experiences of what I can explicitly note as anger, like rage at
Adia Gooden (31:41.399)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (31:53.474)
the understanding, or not understanding really, but the rage at seeing how much my parents were carrying that then got translated onto me. And my parents, my sister and I, we have these intergenerational conversations among us that have been very healing. And I remember one of the conversations, my father was able to...
Adia Gooden (32:03.511)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (32:16.358)
exclaimed the ways in which he had been internalizing socialized beliefs about how he should be as a man and that instructed the ways that he behaved for a large part of his life. And although you know some of our parents will air and potentially even hurt us in reference to how they succumb to socialized ideas and norms,
Adia Gooden (32:23.095)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (32:41.074)
It was so liberating and so heartwarming to see my dad in his very old age, not only be able to understand that he had been operating under a socialized ideology, but also that he was no longer willing to. And to see that in my father was so liberating and helpful. And
Adia Gooden (32:53.495)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (32:58.391)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (33:05.63)
It allowed me to have that grace that you mentioned around like, wow, it really sucks that he had to go six decades of his life, operating a certain way because he believed that was what was expected of him. And what a shame that he didn't get to live a life that wasn't led by those ideas. And
Adia Gooden (33:18.935)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (33:29.303)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (33:33.074)
That's where the grace was, right? Like where, I'm like, man, even with whatever ways he had aired as a parent, like I also felt equally like poor dad, you know? Like he, I think he would have wanted better for himself. And...
Adia Gooden (33:50.775)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (33:54.578)
That's also part of the grief process, right? Like there's sadness there, right? Like, oh man, like I am holding sadness for myself and my dad. And then there's the bargaining. Well, you know, I can see joy in him and I see how much he wants to live outside of that norm. And I take that.
Adia Gooden (34:13.59)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (34:13.794)
and I lived through that, right? And so like there's a lot that can happen as far as intergenerational healing in the journey. And sometimes we have to do that healing not with the people that are in our lives or that have caused us pain. And that's equally important, right? That's also healthy and we don't always have to have a level of compassion for anybody who hasn't done the work.
Adia Gooden (34:25.494)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (34:38.534)
But if it does come and that's a part of our journey, then we invite that in and we integrate it into the grief process.
Adia Gooden (34:44.503)
Yeah, I love that you're sharing about your dad's evolution and the intergenerational conversations that you're having with your family. And one of the things that's coming up for me is about how this is an invitation, at least I'm thinking sort of a framework of kind of black culture and the culture in black families to kind of break some unspoken rules, right? Like, and to ask some questions and to have some conversations that typically
Dr. Mariel Buqué (34:49.688)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (35:09.421)
Mm hmm.
Adia Gooden (35:13.527)
Right? Like there's norms around like stay out of grown folks' business, right? Like we don't talk about that. Like there's a lot that's not talked about, right? And that is often the norm is that secrets are kept. You don't talk about things. You don't necessarily talk about traumas. And so I wonder how you encourage people to sort of navigate and wade into sort of.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (35:22.07)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (35:38.007)
even wanting to understand what the intergenerational trauma is, right? Like what is the legacy? Like what happened to you, mom, or you, dad? What happened to my grandparents so that I can make sense of where I'm at now and how all of this has sort of trickled down? Do you talk about that at all?
Dr. Mariel Buqué (35:43.382)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (35:52.366)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (35:56.718)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, I talk about it extensively. You know, secret keeping is a practice that has been kept in various cultures. I actually like because I have just my own right that I reflect on. And then upon talking to clients that are various cultures, talking to, you know, individuals in the talks that I gave or in the social media space, I'm like, oh, my goodness.
Secret keeping is a cultural value that is very vast. And it looks like there's even like, you know, there's certain language that is assigned to secret keeping in like South Asian communities because it's so prominent there. And it is such a profound part of the culture that they even have their own like, Erdi and Hindu like way of like actually like saying how they seek.
Adia Gooden (36:24.567)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (36:39.095)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (36:52.578)
keep secrets and for what reason. It's fascinating, you know, and I think as a scientist, as a researcher, it is fascinating to see the vastness of, you know, ideologies and how they spread across the world, even beyond my own cultures. But the integration that I do within the book around cultural values is understanding them from a collective trauma perspective. And what I mean by that is that there are certain cultural values like children should be heard and not seen.
Adia Gooden (36:54.583)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (37:15.063)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (37:22.754)
That's one for sure. We keep secrets in our families. We don't air our dirty laundry. We don't talk to strangers about our problems. There are a number of them that promote trauma in our communities and in our families. If you are subscribing to the idea that you don't talk about your issues outside of your family, and you really need mental health, and you're not seeking it because you're so tied to this idea.
Adia Gooden (37:28.311)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (37:34.743)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (37:51.65)
What does that do to a family, right? That person that is, let's say, depressed remains depressed because they're not seeking out the help that they need. That depression could lead to, let's say, irritability, chronic sadness, and an inability to properly care for their children. And their children then have these attachment wounds and these neglect wounds and these ways in which they are growing up without the full presence of a parent because that parent is so subscribed to this ideology that they are not seeking help.
and they're not caring for their children properly. What is happening to that child or those children when they grow up, that they relate in an insecure way, so insecurely attached, and their amorous relationship suffer as a result. They suffer a divorce. They themselves are cycle keepers. It continues and it continues and it festers and it continues and it affects every family member that is a part of that family because we are subscribing to these cultural norms and these ideologies that are toxic, that are...
not only are they antiquated, but they should have never been put in place to begin with. And they haven't been contested for generations and what they're doing is that they're causing us pain. And so the reason why I call them, why at least I like integrate them within the concept of collective trauma is because it is a collective of people that are subscribing to these ideas and then promoting them forward. It's not just one individual or one family, it's all of us. We're doing this to ourselves by not
Adia Gooden (38:54.711)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (39:10.935)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (39:20.45)
saying, you know what, I heard this growing up, but it doesn't feel like something that I want to ring true. Let me contest it, let me challenge it, let me think about it. Let me potentially even stop it for the next generation. Actually, I want my kids to feel seen and heard. I want them to have a voice. I want them to not self-silence. I want them to feel love.
Adia Gooden (39:32.311)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (39:43.314)
I want them to know that I care for them and I wanna hear how their day was in school. I wanna hear about their issues and problems. I wanna have conversations with them. I believe that if they're screaming and yelling and like laughing out loud, that at times I wanna permit that because that's their childlike demeanor that I don't wanna suppress so as to create inner child wounds. And so it's like, it's all of those things that we need to, we have to start.
Adia Gooden (39:54.135)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (40:06.775)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (40:09.81)
examining and excavating the very cultural norms that we have not contested for generations that are keeping us from the abundance that we deserve.
Adia Gooden (40:18.679)
Hmm. Yeah. And the freedom that we deserve. And when you said that, it made me think of, you know, the parent who's struggling to let their child express and be free and, you know, like, be a kid in all those ways probably didn't receive that as a child, don't, like, restrict themselves as an adult, right? Like, do you, you know, often it's like, well, you don't let your kid...
Dr. Mariel Buqué (40:22.233)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (40:47.255)
you know, express their emotions, because you don't let yourself express your emotions. You don't look right, like, and so we get back to the power of, you know, creating that space for ourselves to heal and grow and evolve, and how that then can support us, right, in breaking the cycle and in doing something different with our children, because often...
Dr. Mariel Buqué (41:08.532)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (41:10.967)
And I come back also to the grief, right? Like we have to grieve the childhood that we may have had that wasn't free and wasn't affirming and wasn't as accepting as we needed to be. We need to then offer ourselves that love and that acceptance and that care. And then that sets us up to offer it to our children or our partners or our friends and our community. And in my head, that's kind of what helps to break the cycle.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (41:39.679)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, it doesn't help us to break the cycle and keep it to ourselves.
Adia Gooden (41:46.935)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (41:49.946)
Oftentimes, I will say a beautiful thing about most cycle breakers is that they don't want to keep it to themselves. A lot of cycle breakers actually want to share the wealth of healing and they want to do that either to their children. That's a big, big part of cycle breaking. A lot of cycle breakers who are parents oftentimes want to also help their kids heal. Some people wish to extend that healing backwards and they want to do so for aunts, uncles, grandparents, parents.
and they wish to do that. And some of us also want to do the healing laterally. For example, I did a lot of my healing with my sister and my cousin and my best friend.
um, people that are in my community that I care for deeply and that everything that I was learning, I wanted them to learn as well and vice versa. And so there's, you know, ways in which when we start to pour out some of the healing nuggets that we're learning, it can actually create abundance around us. And there'd be a lot of people that are healing simultaneous to us or healing in their own way, right? And, and that when we're stepping into spaces with these people.
the healing can be felt because there's a lot of other people also doing the work as well.
Adia Gooden (43:04.791)
Yeah, I love that because I think we're in a space where often people are thinking, okay, so if I'm going to heal in terms of like mental and emotional health, I'm going to go to a therapist in an office behind closed doors and it's going to be individual therapy. And like that's what it is. And obviously, individual therapy can really be a powerful space in which healing can take place and it's not enough.
Right? Like we still need community and connection and other people that we're connecting to beyond just a therapist. And that may be a great place to start. But if we don't sort of spread it beyond that 50 minutes a week, it's going to be limited. Right? If it's only behind closed doors or a closed Zoom room these days, right? Like it isn't going to go as far. And so I love that you're talking about healing in community, healing with friends, healing with family and how
Dr. Mariel Buqué (43:34.779)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (43:49.655)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (43:53.649)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (44:01.975)
powerful that can be. And I sort of come back to what you were sharing at the beginning, which is that you had people when you were in graduate school who could love on you and pour into you. And I think that that is really powerful because, healing isn't usually comfortable, right? Or smooth or straight and narrow. And there's a lot of like messy middle times and there's a lot of kind of murkiness. And you know what I mean? There's a lot of that. And so having other people to hold space for you and to sort of,
Dr. Mariel Buqué (44:27.563)
Yeah.
Adia Gooden (44:31.671)
hold space for each other can I think be really helpful.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (44:35.986)
Yeah, absolutely. I call these people safe people. So who's your safe person? Who is a person that you can go to and you can pour your heart out to you can have an ugly cry with and that you can feel held supported and not judged. Even my, you know, my really close friend, I remember she and I met actually in our grad school our first year.
Adia Gooden (44:39.511)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (45:03.286)
And we were in different departments. She's in education, I'm in psychology. And so I would go over to the library where I knew she was. And at times, like I would just like break down and she would understand, hold space, be very tender and kind. And she became a safe person for me outside of my family. And so, you know, her capacity to hold space for me, I simultaneously.
have done the same for her and we continue to do so to this day. Literally we're like both, you know, first time authors and we're, you know, like consulting with each other, like I'm so anxious about like, you know, this, the way that I, you know, reflected this language in the book, can you help me think this through, you know, and like really just, there's a place of safety there, right? And so I believe in...
Identifying the people that when they are close to us and when we are connecting with them, that our hearts, meaning like our minds, our emotions, and our bodies feel settled around these people. When you can identify that you are in a settled place when you're connected to this human, that's a safe person for you. Identify who that person is and make sure that you keep them close. Stay close, stay connected.
Adia Gooden (46:09.655)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (46:18.935)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (46:26.986)
sometimes like FaceTime them, look at their face, look at their facial expressions when they're connecting with you and remember those things, right? Because there's a mirroring effect, there's mirror neurons and there's like ways in which you are connecting in a way that holds empathy that is really healthy for us, much of which we have lost during the pandemic and a lot of us need to get it back and at like extreme amounts to really replenish. So being able to identify the safe person, being able to...
Adia Gooden (46:52.343)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (46:56.77)
further connect with them more than probably what we're accustomed to. And making sure that we're doing so with greater intention is a really important part of the cycle breaking and healing journey. And it is a part of what I also exclaim in my book and help people to really hone into. I not only help the reader to orient themselves around where is a safe place for you to engage in healing work, which we oftentimes don't actually identify. But I have certain
Adia Gooden (47:20.055)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (47:25.218)
pockets of my home, like there's a little corner here with like a little sound bowl and that's one corner. There's a little, you know, a chair outside in the backyard and that's one of my corners, right? Like there are places that I've designated as these are healing pockets for me and I can go there and feel a sense of safety. The same goes with identifying who are your people and if you either want to go through the cycle breaking journey with them or you simply want to just drop
Adia Gooden (47:39.895)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (47:51.918)
closer and nearer to them while you're engaging in your own cycle breaking journey, then at least have that person come to mind and brought to mind. And even if that person is an ancestor, perhaps it's not a living person, but like my grandmother's my ancestor. Also, there's other people that are more distant ancestors, like Nina Simone's one of my favorite ancestors. And...
Adia Gooden (48:04.663)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (48:10.551)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (48:13.246)
So it's James Baldwin, a living ancestor, Angela Davis. There are a number of people, Mamati Ngoh, who's a Dominican revolutionary that fought for the lives of black poor Dominicans and for their land. And so these are people that I hold to mind, that I commit to, that I write letters to, that I meditate upon. And so I think that there is a lot that we can do around how we can build safety around ourselves during journeys that feel...
Adia Gooden (48:16.855)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (48:21.047)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (48:33.143)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (48:41.398)
very heavy and very layered, like an intergenerational healing journey.
Adia Gooden (48:44.599)
Hmm. My next question was going to be about intergenerational strength, and I was thinking that was the note we could end on. And I feel like you're starting to touch on that. So I'd love for you to share even a little bit more of like, you're giving examples of how you tap into that intergenerational strength. Can you talk a little bit more about what it is?
Dr. Mariel Buqué (48:53.002)
Yeah.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (49:01.79)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like my favorite thing to talk about in reference to healing. So, you know, very often we think of strength as being this like one person experience, when in reality, as I mentioned, like my mother said, you have these ancestors that are always with you everywhere you are. And I really do feel held and protected by the people that came before me. And all of us have that. We just haven't really been formally trained on how
Adia Gooden (49:05.463)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (49:27.575)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (49:31.362)
to tap into our generational resilience. And there's actually even a biological explanation for our generational resilience. When our parents and grandparents undergo a specific set of circumstances, biologically, we become hardwired to be able to actually go through the same circumstances that they went through and survive them. And the same goes for psychologically, right? Like we, you know,
Adia Gooden (49:54.935)
Hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (50:01.974)
our parents might tell us, hey, don't touch the stove, you know, or don't, you know, like, just like things to like protect us and help us to know there's danger there, don't go there, right? And so, you know, I think we can think about resilience in that very like tangible way, but we can also think of it as the, just the innate strength that we hold within us that is a part of just the protection that we have from the people that came before us, but also the strength that they held as well.
Adia Gooden (50:10.167)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (50:31.606)
And when we have trouble tapping into it, I think always go to the source, right? The source for some people may be a source that carries spirituality and may be God or God in other forms. And the source may be some universal elements for some people. Some people are very tied to moon cycles or to the elements of earth, right? Grounding on the earth, maybe like sitting by a pond and things that really help us to build.
Adia Gooden (50:36.663)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (51:01.026)
that mental fortitude. And for some of us like myself, like all of my recent journal entries have been to my grandmother. And it has allowed me an opportunity to feel so deeply connected to her. It actually reminds me of her smile whenever I feel like, you know, she's caring for me. And it's a beautiful way in which I can go into these spaces that are very...
Adia Gooden (51:07.575)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (51:21.751)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (51:30.862)
can be intimidating. And I'm a short person. Like I believe I have short stature, right? And so I'm like this tiny human. And I go into these spaces that I already have like a very profound introversion and like intuitiveness to me, like I'm just like a very shy person. And so like on top of that, I'm tiny, right? And then I go into these spaces where I have to exercise a lot of power.
Adia Gooden (51:31.767)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (51:39.383)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (51:48.855)
Hmm
Adia Gooden (51:59.479)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (52:00.414)
And so, you know, it helps me to know that I have the strength of all of these beautiful forces that are with me so that I can step wholeheartedly into the work that I've been commissioned to do without feeling the potency of that little, little baby, Mariel, that's always there, right, with her tenderness and like kind of always wants to just be in her tenderness.
Adia Gooden (52:21.335)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (52:25.175)
Hmm
Dr. Mariel Buqué (52:25.986)
but I can't necessarily do that while doing the work. I have to step into power. And so the generational strength that I'm able to commission through the practices that I reflect in the book, through the ancestral letters that I write to my grandmother, prayer, meditation, like all the things that really ground us, all of those things help me to step into the power that is also in me. So it's a beautiful thing.
Adia Gooden (52:43.319)
Hmm.
Adia Gooden (52:48.407)
Hmm. I love that. I love that. I love, I don't do it as often as might be helpful. So this is kind of inspiring me to do it more, but like just imagining what my ancestors have endured, overcome their persistence there, right? Like just imagining that from, you know, ancestors who were taken from Africa, making it through the Middle Passage, making it through slavery. I mean, it's just
starts to be incredible, right? And I think the trap can be if we use that to diminish our own experience, but I think what you're talking about is the strength of like their blood, their genes, their strength, their spirit is in me and with me and will guide me and propel me forward. And it's really empowering because it means it's helping you to connect to something greater than yourself. I think so often if we feel like, well, it's just me and it all depends on me and it's all just about
Dr. Mariel Buqué (53:20.149)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (53:26.236)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (53:32.896)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (53:42.614)
Mm-hmm.
Adia Gooden (53:46.871)
what I do and me doing it perfectly, like that my success is only dependent on that, then that's stressful and overwhelming. But if it's about a lineage and about carrying something forward that you didn't have to start and you won't have to finish, right? It's like running your leg of the race and knowing that so many people are cheering you on and came before you and set you up well and knowing that other people, you're setting them up well, right? Like that that feels.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (54:06.516)
Yeah.
Adia Gooden (54:14.423)
really empowering and makes it feel like, okay, I can do my leg, I can do my part of it. So I so appreciate you coming onto the podcast, sharing your wisdom and your insights. And I know that after talking with you, I'm like excited to read the book. And this podcast is coming out shortly before, a couple of weeks before the book is officially released. So tell people.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (54:21.363)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (54:36.462)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (54:41.161)
Yeah.
Adia Gooden (54:42.327)
about the title of the book and where they can find it, and then also where they can connect with you further.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (54:44.983)
Yeah.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (54:48.338)
Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that. So it's break the cycle is the title of the book it's break the cycle a guide to healing intergenerational trauma and it is going to be a book that
focuses on all the different stages of how we engage in the healing process of intergenerational trauma so we can step into our generational abundance and The book can actually be found on my website at dr Mariel bouquet comm and that's also a place where people can find other ways to connect with me Also my newsletter which is also called break the cycle and within it I offer different coping skills each week
that people can actually engage in order to build their mental resilience and generational resilience and All of my social medias are also on there which is at dr. Mariel bouquet
Adia Gooden (55:42.551)
Awesome. Thank you so much. I so appreciate it. And I wish you well.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (55:44.231)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Mariel Buqué (55:49.331)
Thank you. Likewise, thank you so much for having me.[cheerful music starts]
Dr. Adia Gooden [00:46:48] Thanks for joining me this week on the Unconditionally Worthy Podcast. Make sure to visit my website, dradiagooden.com and subscribe to the show on iTunes so you'll never miss an episode. You can also follow me on social media at Dr. Adia Gooden. If you loved the show, please leave a review on iTunes so we can continue to bring you amazing episodes. Lastly, if you found this episode helpful and know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please share it. Thanks for listening and see you next episode.
[cheerful music ends]
This episode was produced by Crys & Tiana and the music is by Wataboi.
Cali by Wataboi https://soundcloud.com/wataboi
Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0
Music promoted by FDL Music https://youtu.be/ZdQI7WQWi_g
Intergenerational trauma is something that impacts most of us whether we know it or not. While it can be discouraging to consider the trauma that has impacted so many people in our lineage, it is empowering to know that we can heal intergenerational trauma and to remember the strength that we can draw from our ancestors.
Healing intergenerational trauma is about what we do in our own lives to break the cycle and how we change things for future generations.
In this episode of the Unconditionally Worthy podcast I’m joined by Dr. Mariel Buqué who is a psychologist, intergenerational trauma expert, and author.
Listen in as Dr. Mariel shares about how imposter syndrome was a big factor in her own self-worth journey and shares her deep wisdom and practical insights on how we can heal intergenerational trauma.
The impact of intergenerational trauma
What is intergenerational trauma?
According to Dr. Mariel, intergenerational trauma is handed down a family line and within communities. There are two modes of transmission: our biology and our psychology. From a biological standpoint, we inherit genetic expressions from our parents and these genes are impacted by stress. There’s also the psychological component where trauma is transmitted through the environment and what is happening in relationships, the presence of abuse, neglect, poverty, and other traumatic experiences. Intergenerational trauma also includes systemic influences that create and promote the traumas that then influence our families.
How can trauma show up in our lives?
Dr. Mariel shares her experience of trauma when she was in graduate school at Columbia. She shared that she experienced imposter syndrome in response to classmates and others communicating that she didn’t belong there. Eventually this toxic academic environment led her to question her self-worth overall. Trauma can cause us to feel unworthy because we are not being treated as worthy by people or systems that we are engaged with.
Tips for healing intergenerational trauma:
Allow other people to pour into you. Sometimes it’s hard to access our worthiness on our own. It can be powerful for friends and family members who love us to affirm us as unconditionally worthy and remind us of the truth of who we are. Let your loved ones know when you’re in need of some extra affirmation and support and then allow yourself to receive the support they offer you.
Invite in grief. Grieving is part of the process of healing intergenerational trauma. It may sound counterintuitive to invite grief in but Dr. Mariel guides us to do this because she says that grief is present whether we welcome it or not. When we welcome grief we allow ourselves to fully feel and process it and release the burdens of the trauma our lineage has experienced.
Find people (e.g. friends, cousins, etc) to heal with. Dr. Mariel talks about her own journey of “healing laterally” with her sister and cousin. While healing is not always possible with the people who caused us harm, we may be able to find close friends or family members in our generation who are willing and able to do the work of intergenerational healing alongside us.
Seek to understand the impact of trauma on your parents and caregivers. Often trauma has shaped the behavior and parenting of the people who raised us. Dr. Mariel described experiencing anger related to dynamics of the parenting she received. She also shared that understanding the trauma that her parents experienced helped her to offer them grace and forgiveness.
Challenge unhelpful family and cultural norms. Dr. Mariel shares that secret keeping is a widespread cultural norm that can keep people from getting the support that they need. Secret keeping can sound like “we don’t air your dirty laundry” or “we don’t talk to strangers about our problems.” Unfortunately, these norms can promote trauma and in order to heal intergenerational trauma, we must break these norms in thoughtful and intentional ways. This might not be sharing everything on social media but could look like going to a therapist or having a conversation with a loved one about what has happened in the family.
Draw strength from your ancestors. While intergenerational trauma is a reality that many of us have to navigate, intergenerational strength is also a powerful source of healing. It is incredibly empowering to consider the ancestors who have come before you and who are supporting you and encouraging you along the way. You can consider their wisdom and strength and the fact that you are carrying on their legacy. These reminders can help us when we are feeling unsure or discouraged.
Be sure to listen to the full episode to hear Dr. Mariel’s deep insights into intergenerational healing and what this has looked like in both of our lives. Also, be sure to pre-order Dr. Mariel’s book Break the Cycle: Healing Intergenerational Trauma which will be out in January 2024.
Relevant Resources:
Sign up for Dr. Mariel Buqué’s newsletter and receive a free guide on 21 Healing Practices
https://www.drmarielbuque.com/newsletter
Dr. Adia’s Free E-Book: 4 Practices to Connect with Your Unconditional Self-Worth
About Dr. Mariel Buqué:
Dr. Mariel Buqué is a Columbia University-trained Psychologist, Intergenerational Trauma Expert, and the Author of "Break the Cycle," a book that focuses on healing wounds of intergenerational trauma. She has been featured on major media outlets including The Today Show, CNN, The Real, and ABC News. You may find her work at www.drmarielbuque.com.
To connect further with Dr. Mariel Buqué and purchase her book:
Connect with her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.marielbuque/
Check out her website: https://www.drmarielbuque.com/
Buy her forthcoming book: Break the Cycle - https://sites.prh.com/breakthecyclebook
To connect further with me:
Visit my website: https://www.dradiagooden.com
Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dradiagooden
Connect with me on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adiagooden/
Subscribe to my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCURnbYiU8WTj_2RlMIyER0w
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